Who do you look up to? Do you have heroes? Fashion photographer Umberto N. Nicoletti has created a new coffee table book full of photographs of some of his heroes—LQBTQIA+ asylum seekers. Inspired by his friend Diego Puccio, a volunteer for Arcigay, an Italian organization that helps refugees obtain asylum, Umberto became passionate about fighting for LGBTQIA+ rights. He was shocked to learn that over 40% of countries still have laws against the community and realized that even his own inner circle of friends was unaware of this issue. Umberto decided to take action and create an artistic project to raise awareness about the criminalization of the LGBTQIA+ community worldwide.
Umberto joins me to talk about his new book of photography, Asylum, which features photographs of some of the LGBTQIA+ asylum seekers Umberto has met. We talk about his choices in terms of the style of the photographs, why it’s important to him to show the subjects in a more glamorous and idealized way, the process of interviewing the subjects of the book, and his hopes for the book and future projects based on it.
We also cover how Umberto feels a connection to these asylum seekers based on his search for belonging in his own life.
Transcript
Leave me a voicemail on my website arthealsallwoundspodcast.com!
Guest Info:
How to Get Involved with Art Heals All Wounds:
Who do you look up to? Do you have heroes? Fashion photographer Umberto N. Nicoletti has created a new coffee table book full of photographs of some of his heroes—LQBTQIA+ asylum seekers. Inspired by his friend Diego Puccio, a volunteer for Arcigay, an Italian organization that helps refugees obtain asylum, Umberto became passionate about fighting for LGBTQIA+ rights. He was shocked to learn that over 40% of countries still have laws against the community and realized that even his own inner circle of friends was unaware of this issue. Umberto decided to take action and create an artistic project to raise awareness about the criminalization of the LGBTQIA+ community worldwide.
Umberto joins me to talk about his new book of photography, Asylum, which features photographs of some of the LGBTQIA+ asylum seekers Umberto has met. We talk about his choices in terms of the style of the photographs, why it’s important to him to show the subjects in a more glamorous and idealized way, the process of interviewing the subjects of the book, and his hopes for the book and future projects based on it.
We also cover how Umberto feels a connection to these asylum seekers based on his search for belonging in his own life.
Transcript
Leave me a voicemail on my website arthealsallwoundspodcast.com!
Guest Info:
How to Get Involved with Art Heals All Wounds:
Pam Uzzell [00:00:12]:
Do you believe art can change the world? So do I! On this show, We meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell. You know, almost every time we hear about terrible acts of atrocity, like mass shootings as one example, there's always a familiar story. He--sorry, but it usually is a he. He never felt like he fit in. He didn't feel like he belonged. This act of violence, it's implied, is the direct result of that. From the guests on this show, I've heard a different version of that story. He didn't feel like he fit in or that he belonged. So, he became an artist. He found ways to communicate and express himself creatively. And because he knew how it felt not to belong, he had a lot of empathy for anyone else feeling that way, too. I'm so glad you're here for another episode where we explore belonging. Creative pursuits are such an effective way to communicate and to feel connection. I want this podcast to be one of the places that helps people to feel like they belong. Do you feel like your creative journey was fueled by a desire to belong? Please go to my website, arthealsallwoundspodcast.com, and leave me a voice mail sharing your story. I want to get enough of these voice mails to start creating episodes with them. Today, I'm sharing the story of Umberto Nicola Nicoletti's new book, Asylum. Umberto is an Italian photographer and director. He specializes in portrait photography in the fields of advertising, music, fashion, and publishing. But this last project is something that really spoke to him. Asylum is a coffee table book with photographs of some of the many LGBTQIA+ refugees who have left their home countries due to discrimination. In Umberto's eyes, these courageous people deserve to be recognized as heroes. So he took his skills as a fashion photographer to take bold and beautiful glossy photos of those included in this book. His desire was to celebrate all of his subjects for the bravery it took to embark on a quest to find a place where they can fully express who they are without fear of violence or recrimination. Beyond simply photographing these asylum seekers, Umberto also asked them to share some of their stories. What he heard were stories of great pain. Resilience hopefulness and joy. In this episode, Umberto shares what he learned in doing this project and how his own experiences with belonging helped him to connect with the asylum seekers photographed in this book. And he hopes that this book will bring greater awareness to the ongoing discrimination against members the LGBTQIA+ community that forced them to flee their home countries. Hi, Umberto. Thank you so much for being on Art Heals All Wounds. Can you start by telling us who you are and what you do?
Umberto [00:03:57]:
Hi. Thank you for having me. My name is Umberto Nicola Nicoletti and I'm a photographer and director.
Pam Uzzell [00:04:06]:
I have been wanting to talk to you particularly about a book project that you just finished this beautiful book called Asylum. And I'm wondering if you can talk about that. What is Asylum?
Umberto [00:04:21]:
Asylum is my first photography book. I dedicated myself for 6 years to this project, and it's not just a a book of beautiful pictures, but a project that talks about the political asylum of LGBTQIA+ individuals that are persecuted in their own country based on their gender and sexual orientation.
Pam Uzzell [00:04:46]:
So it took you 6 years to do this project?
Umberto [00:04:49]:
Yes.
Pam Uzzell [00:04:49]:
Oh, wow.
Umberto [00:04:53]:
Yeah. But also, COVID happened, so a lot of stuff.
Pam Uzzell [00:04:59]:
Yeah. That's that's true. We've we all had a major interruption in our timetables. So, I'm so curious, why this topic? What drew you to making this book? And what was the origin idea for this book?
Umberto [00:05:13]:
For me, it was important because more than 40% of the country in the world still have laws against LGBTQIA+ community. And I started this project, thanks to, a dear friend of mine that is called Diego Puccio that who is a volunteer for an Italian organization called Arcigay, and I was introduced to the situation of criminalization against the community worldwide. And because he helps and assists the refugees obtaining asylum. I was not aware of this issue. And I was also surprised that also my inner circle of friends doesn't know anything about this issue. So for many years, he asked me to do a project, an artistic project, with the organization to talk about the issue, but maybe I was not ready. But in 2016,
Umberto [00:06:10]:
I tried to think at the project because I used to work, like, in advertising and fashion, and I do portraits, but, commercial work. So it was not something that I was used to do pictures, like journalistic picture or stuff like that. So together, with the organization, we want to work on a project that could inform people and also inform the LGBTQI plus community itself. So we started in Milan, but I soon realized that it would be too limited to talk about asylum just in Italy because I wanted to extend it to the whole world because it's a worldwide issue. And for me, it was essential to give a kind of overview of what what is what what is happening globally. So we started to do the first shooting and And then all all the idea for the project came into my mind. That was the starting of the project. Okay?
Pam Uzzell [00:07:08]:
Yeah. Well, you know, This book, it's gorgeous. The photos are gorgeous, but the content, you start at the beginning, giving some statistics about -- the number of countries that criminalize the LGBTQ plus community. And I was shocked honestly, by how many criminalize it. And I was also shocked by this kind of gray area of how many countries while they don't criminalize it. They do also don't have protections in place against -- Yes. -- discrimination, violence, You know, the whole range of things that, the LGBTQI community are facing in their home countries.
Umberto [00:07:55]:
Yes. That's why for me was really important because, yeah, I never heard about this issue, and so for me. I was done. Me too. Yeah. So after that we started to do the shooting in Milan, then I worked also with other organization around the world and with a picture in Washington, DC, New York, Toronto and London because I was curious to know, how the salem process works in other places and and also it's a worldwide issue that feeds with prejudice, shame, and fear. And so that's why he's always kept hidden. So that was my I was really determined to talk about this issue.
Pam Uzzell [00:08:48]:
Right. Well, I do wanna just talk a little bit more about the -- style of the book. It is very beautiful. It's a coffee table book. And -- Yeah. -- it's very beautiful. And I think you went for the maximum effect in terms of you use black and white, but also some bronze in there. So I'm wondering if you could talk about why you chose that style.
Umberto [00:09:16]:
Yes. In the beginning, I told you that I was a little bit skeptical to do this project because I I don't work with reportage photography, journalistic photography. So I had to find a way in my head to talk about this issue, but also doing the thing that I was able to do. So, for example, in, the first they they did the shooting. Diego, the friend of mine also asked me to try to record some interviews, some video interview. to the guys, but, of course, I think we have this way of thinking, like, in a journalistic way Also, if I'm not a journalist, but to, for example, someone that had that experience to really want to know the struggle and the pain they have suffered, So it was strange because when we started to record the interview, a lot of them want to use their thumb language because they were tramatize about the experience that they have. And, also, the strange thing was that they wanted to answer just the question for example, about their dreams and about how they want to spend their life. And So it was really beautiful to see this thing because I I couldn't imagine something like that, of course, because I thought that we have to talk about struggle and pain and suffering, but, of course, they didn't want to relieve what they lived. So that thing let me think about more about also the project. And I wanted to share, of course, I have to talk a little bit about the issue and the struggle. But in terms of images and how to represent them, I wanted to start with the beauty of them. with their strong soul that they have. So more about empathy and more about beauty. From there, my photographic approach was not just merely involved capturing images, but portraying the individuality and complexity of each person.
Pam Uzzell [00:11:27]:
Wow.
Umberto [00:11:28]:
You mentioned the black and white that I I used the light and the shadow that also kind of a metaphor. Because the anonymity of some asylum seeker in the photo not only respect the privacy, but also symbolize the struggle and the pain that refugees face in their own country. So was a kind of the thing that you don't know at all the shadow that they have. So this evokes a sense of empathy, but also frustration in the viewer because you cannot see some part of them. So highlighting the urgent need for a change of recognition for their humanity. So I wanted to use beautiful and glossy images that commonly associates associated with fashion and advertising to evoke empathy for the subject portrayed and also their experience I wanted kind of, shift the focus from the discrimination and the hardship faced by the refugees to their unique stories and inherent worth. I wanted to portray them as a kind of celebrities, idols, and heroes because for me, they are really the representation of that. And also I wanted to to restore their dignity to bring attention to the to discrimination they face.
Pam Uzzell [00:12:54]:
Well, what's so beautiful about that approach is that, so often, people who are in a position of privilege really love to consume stories of other people who are in a way objectified by their own tragedy. And --
Umberto [00:13:16]:
Mmm-hmmm.
Pam Uzzell [00:13:17]:
-- I love that you took a different approach that rather than have them be completely defined by the trauma and the tragedy that they've gone through, you wanted to give them back some sort of agency. And as you said, dignity through these photos.
Umberto [00:13:36]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Because usually in the media, for example, about refugees and immigrants, they are kind of indistinct mass
Pam Uzzell [00:13:44]:
Mhmm.
Pam Uzzell [00:13:45]:
Umberto [00:13:45]:
of people that you they don't want you to know the story. They they don't want you to know the struggle. It's a kind of, as you said, maybe in the picture, you have to see crying, you have to see a worse thing. But I think it's important to recognize to --the keyword, for me, is really empathy. To say I don't have merits to be born in one place. And so if I'm in a situation like that, what can I do? What will I do? So for me, at the moment, like, idols and a celebrity is not anymore a Kardashian, but more people that really struggle to have a better life.
Pam Uzzell [00:14:34]:
Yeah. I wanna ask you to go back and say, for you, celebrities are no longer what did you say?
Umberto [00:14:45]:
A Kardashian. Yeah. Not that I have something with them. But I mean, for example, the true American dream is that one is not that you have a reality show.
Pam Uzzell [00:14:57]:
Right. Right. But it's being able to live someplace where you can be fully who you are. And love who you wanna love, have the identity that you have. Yeah. I completely see what you're saying.
Umberto [00:15:12]:
And how beautiful you are.
Pam Uzzell [00:15:14]:
Yeah. Well, that is definitely what comes across in your photographs. And I so I think that you succeeded in that goal. And it is an interesting thing to create a coffee table book.
Umberto [00:15:28]:
Yeah. And also one thing that I really liked was that we are so used to advertising imagery that when we see the book, when we see the pictures and we don't know the subject of the book, we feel like there are we are really drawn to the images and to say how beautiful they are. And also this empathy, immediate empathy that I wanted to be beautiful like them. And so I really like this short circuit that happens. You know, that when you know the story, then you say, you know, that a little bit is is a strange in your mind.
Pam Uzzell [00:16:09]:
Well, what I think really balances out this book is that you have the beautiful images, but you have quotes from them. You might have a quote next to someone, and it's not necessarily their quote. It's just a quote that you gathered from this interviewing process. But then you do put the realistic statistics in the book as well about the size of the problem So it is a really interesting balance that you've achieved in this book and that someone would pick it up and start looking through it and start looking at the pictures, but then when they start looking at the text, they're going to have that story come in with the pictures. So that was a really well-balanced approach to this.
Umberto [00:16:56]:
Yeah. I wanted to have all these voices while you look at the pictures, you have all these voices from all around the world that tells you what happened. So because among the various documents that are required to file an asylum application, one must include a letter in which the migrant recount their experiences in in his own country. and the reason behind their request for protection. So these letters are a testimony of torture endured and tangible evidence of the violence that the LGBTQI+ community still face worldwide. So to safeguard the identity and the privacy of the migrants, we choose to print only selected excerpts from this letter.
Pam Uzzell [00:17:47]:
Right.
Umberto [00:17:48]:
But I think these snippets of story serves to provide us, like, a a global understanding of what is still happening worldwide.
Pam Uzzell [00:17:56]:
Right. Right. Yeah. And you do talk about that these particular asylum seekers have been doubly traumatized. Both where they came from both in their home country and then as part of the refugee experience. And I'm wondering if you can talk about that.
Umberto [00:18:16]:
Yes. They face dual discrimination. I think I was talking about not in their home country, but in the host country. Because they face dual discrimination being both immigrants and LGBTQI +. Because this is particularly evident in, for example, here in Italy in refugee camps where they endure attacks from fellow migrants. They came with them.
Pam Uzzell [00:18:46]:
Wow.
Umberto [00:18:46]:
So they experienced complete isolation, making these organizations, supporting LGBTQI + migrants, like, really crucial and a source of support for their lives. And, also, I was thinking I was thinking of another testimony that comes to my mind. There is a story that a a young man share with me about his experience on being both Black and part of the LGBTQI + community because despite facing discrimination and injustice in his own country the thing that impacted him the most was the discrimination he faced from within the LGBT community itself in the host country. So I I was really shocked about that because everything that he went through, the worst thing was the confronting the LGBTQI + community in the host country.
Pam Uzzell [00:19:41]:
Do you think that was based on racial differences or, anti-immigrant feelings, what was that based on?
Umberto [00:19:49]:
Yes. I think a little bit. And also I think that also social network have not helped us. In the context of, especially in the hookup culture in the LGBT community because maybe behind every "Hi" in an instant mess said that there is a life and a story. And so if you look superficial appearances, sometimes could happen if you didn't treat like human being as human being
Pam Uzzell [00:20:15]:
-- Right. --
Umberto [00:20:16]:
this happens. And I think that also social networks is also was a part of this.
Pam Uzzell [00:20:24]:
Right. Right. That's so interesting. Well, I'm really curious. You also write a little bit about your background and why you feel a connection to this project and to your subjects as you're photographing them. And I'm wondering you can share a little bit about that.
Umberto [00:20:43]:
Yes. I was born in Italy, but I I used to say that I'm I'm born from two Italian immigrants because my mother was born in Tripoli, Libya, born from Sicilian parents, while my father is originally from Calabria in the south of Italy, and they settle in the north of Italy in the city of Padua. So even even though I was born in Italy, I never felt completely at home because I used to move between the north and the south, and I consider myself the son of immigrants because I always felt like an outsider in the place I was supposed to call home. So it seems I couldn't find a place where I truly fit, but I felt like a unique blend of different cultures and backgrounds. And one event that we write in the book was when I went to attend a conference in in association of repatriated Italians from Libya, and I was a child. And it was a kind of surreal experience as we gathered as refugees in Italy, sharing our stories and learning about our rights and procedure after being forced to leave Libya. Mhmm. Because it was a colony, Italian colony, and my mother was one of those affected by Gaddafi that in,
Umberto [00:22:13]:
1970 with, I don't know how to pronounce it, really. It was cope detached.
Pam Uzzell [00:22:17]:
Oh, yeah. Coup d'etat.
Umberto [00:22:18]:
Because it's yeah. Thank you. Because she, at the age of nineteen, she had to flee the country with the family. So yeah, she stayed there 19 years. So this personal connection to migration and displacement further fueled my curiosity about this topic from a really young age, of course. Parents also instilled in me the valuable lesson about helping others and be proactive in our community and offering assistance to those in need. So they used to do really simple thing, but profound gestures, were a part of their everyday practice. So and they really shaped my perspective in life. And I always felt the urge to make a positive impact on the lives of others and be actually involved in supporting those who are going through tough times, but I always struggled because I wanted to do something with my work that could reach more people than only my neighbor or so, yeah, it started from there. My needs to do this project.
Pam Uzzell [00:23:32]:
Yeah. That's so interesting. But, you know, in the book, you also describe yourself as an introvert.
Umberto [00:23:39]:
Yes.
Pam Uzzell [00:23:40]:
I'm just so curious, you know, despite being an introvert, you have this desire to communicate with a large number of people, but how have you found ways to communicate that work with being an introvert?
Umberto [00:23:56]:
Yes. From my childhood in the beginning, I I was really, like, all the type of communication that are normal, like words and also, like structures of things it was really difficult for me because I felt all this. I worked a lot with my senses, for example, I used to dance all the time. I used to draw all the times. I used to sing all the times. So that was my like, more comfortable way to express myself than words because I really felt not the people doesn't understand me. So I had to find I had to find a way to let me show myself. So I've been a dancer and a a dance teacher, for example. Music is an important practice in my life. I play and sing in a rock progressive metal band. And also in the book, I recorded an original song that is composed by me. That in the beginning, I thought of using it merely to accompany the photo for small videos for social network or to advertising the book. But then I decided to create the song as a, really, as soundtrack for the project because while I was working on the book, I always envision it in a very cinematic way. Also another thing that I'm currently working also on developing an adaptation for a movie of the book.
Pam Uzzell [00:25:30]:
Oh, wow.
Umberto [00:25:31]:
I don't know if I I will be able to do it, but I'm doing it. And, yes, usually, like, just the medium of photography and the book itself didn't seem sufficient to me. I felt the need to express all the pain and suffering and resilience of them of this beautiful sauce. And after so many years that I've worked with different mediums, so I wanted to kind of blend all together and to use it also for the book.
Pam Uzzell [00:26:04]:
Wow. That's pretty exciting. I would love to see a film from this book.
Umberto [00:26:09]:
Yeah. Me too.
Pam Uzzell [00:26:12]:
So I'm just wondering. What's the one thing that you want to leave people with around this work that you're doing? The book, these incredible stories you've heard, the really heroic people that you've had the chance to get to know and to photograph. What do you want people who pick up this book, what do you want them to understand?
Umberto [00:26:36]:
I think certainly about the seriousness of this issue. And that is in 2023, there are still so many countries that criminalize it.
Pam Uzzell [00:26:47]:
Right.
Umberto [00:26:48]:
So Asylum aims, I think, to inform and make people understand the extent of this phenomenon. And also to realize that in some countries, just being oneself can lead to death. So I think to become aware of what is happening in the world and understand how asylum policies are very important and also the importance of the work of this organization that usually are possible just with the help of volunteers. But with their help, these individuals can build a life in the host country. And the most important thing, I think that here in Italy, we don't understand that refugees, asylum seekers could become a productive member of society. And so it's really a resource, and it's not the problem.
Pam Uzzell [00:27:42]:
Right. Right. Yeah. And you know, it's so interesting because one thing I take away from your book is that you spoke earlier about how many films or news stories about asylum seekers, they're very anonymous. They're, you know, you're not seeing the individual there. And your book makes me realize that with every person like that that I might encounter or just know about, there's a whole story behind them. And --
Umberto [00:28:18]:
Yes.
Pam Uzzell [00:28:19]:
Yeah. That really being open to that story is going to be where you find your common humanity with that person.
Umberto [00:28:29]:
Yeah. And while you were talking, I thought about this quote, I don't know if I, reported correctly made by Andrew Garfield, the actor, the Spider Man actor, that he said, if you know someone's story, you fall in love with with them.
Pam Uzzell [00:28:46]:
Wow.
Umberto [00:28:47]:
And I think I think it's really true. When you know the struggle, when you know how it went through life, I think, yeah, it's really true.
Pam Uzzell [00:28:58]:
Oh, that's beautiful. Well, Umberto, where can people find out more about you and more about this book?
Umberto [00:29:07]:
Okay. So I made a site for the project that is called asylum-theproject.com. and also in the in the site, anyone can donate to the organization involving the project directly. There's also a link through, to my site. There is, umbertonicoletti.com. Yeah. That it. There's, of course, the song that is called Killing Beauty. That is also the name of my introduction in the book that you can find in all the streaming platform. Yeah. I think that's it.
Pam Uzzell [00:29:45]:
Well, it's been really wonderful to talk to you and learn more about this really beautiful and moving project.
Umberto [00:29:54]:
Thank you very much.
Pam Uzzell [00:29:59]:
You're listening to Art Heals All Wounds. Thank you so much to Umberto Nicola Nicoletti, for sharing the story behind his beautiful new book, Asylum. If you wanna find out more about Umberto, check out his website umbertonicoletti.com. You can also go to asylum-theproject.com to find out more about the book and how you can get involved. I'll have all of that info for you in the show notes. I wanna share your story of how art has helped you feel like you belong. Go to my website, arthealsallwoundspodcast.com, and leave me a voice mail. Help me get enough of these listener stories to share them on an episode. And if you can leave me a small donation by following the link Buy Me a Coffee, you'll be helping me to continue to make this show. Speaking of which, thank you to Marjorie Sturm for buying me a coffee. Your support keeps the show going. The music you've heard in this podcast is by Ketsa and Lobo Loco. This podcast was edited by Iva Hristova. As always, this show was recorded using Squadcast.fm. Art Heals All Wounds comes to you from Oakland, California, on unceded territory of the Chochenyo Ohlone people.