Art as Healing: Using Intuitive Painting to Process Trauma, Find Belonging, and Express Emotion

What if you could paint your deepest emotions — without anyone judging whether the painting is beautiful, and without needing to analyze what it means? In this episode, I talk with Bahar Amanzadeh, an intuitive painting guide whose trauma-informed workshops create a safe, somatic space for emotional healing through art.

Bahar explains how intuitive painting differs from art therapy, why healing happens in the body before it happens in the mind, and how community and creativity can help us find rootedness even in the most turbulent times. As a member of the Iranian diaspora, she also shares how this practice helps her and her community process grief, displacement, and the ongoing trauma of war.

Whether you're an artist or have never picked up a paintbrush, I think this episode will change the way you think about creativity, emotional expression, and healing.

In this episode:

• What an intuitive painting guide does — and how it differs from art therapy
• How somatic, body-based art practices support trauma healing
• Why the inner critic shows up in creative work — and how to work with it
• The role of community in emotional healing
• How Persian poetry, music, and culture help Bahar stay rooted during crisis
• Finding belonging and identity as part of the Iranian diaspora

Timestamped Highlights

• 0:12 — I introduce the show and share a personal story about anger, shame, and the need for nonjudgmental emotional expression
• 2:21 — Bahar's background: from dentist to intuitive painting guide, and her training with Kris Sydell
• 3:55 — What is an intuitive painting guide? Bahar explains the role and the process
• 5:28 — How intuitive painting differs from art therapy 
• 8:32 — How Bahar found her way to intuitive painting as a single mom, immigrant, and sensitive soul
• 13:05 — The inner critic: why it always shows up and how facilitators help participants work with it
• 16:22 — A recent workshop in the Oakland Hills redwoods: painting, poetry, movement, and the theme of rootedness
• 21:30 — The elephant in the room: being part of the Iranian diaspora during a time of war and violence
• 24:12 — Finding rootedness through Persian and Sufi poetry, music, and ancestry
• 28:52 — How transformation happens incrementally — and why healing is never all or nothing
• 33:38 — Why Bahar named her practice "Painting the River" — and what that metaphor means for healing
• 38:43 — How to find Bahar: paintingtheriver.com and Instagram @artforhealing7

Resources & Links

• Bahar Amanzadeh's website: paintingtheriver.com
• Instagram: @artforhealing7
• Learn more about the show: arthealsallwoundspodcast.com
• Follow me on Substack for updates

Music by Ketsa, Lobo Loco, and Barbara Higbie.

Transcript

00;00;12;00 - 00;00;31;11

Pam

Do you believe art can change the world? So do I! On this show, we meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell.

00;00;47;04 - 00;01;16;19

Pam

Many years ago, my partner at that time said something to me that was just so hurtful and almost immediately that hurt turned into anger. I had just been about to start washing dishes and it was like the anger took over my arm and I threw a glass I was carrying as hard as I could into the sink. As that glass smashed into pieces,

00;01;16;22 - 00;01;47;12

Pam

those feelings of hurt and anger turned to shame. Ashamed of my action, for sure, but also ashamed of my feelings. If you had told me then that there was a way to express my feelings through art, through painting, with no judgment either on the quality of the painting or on the feeling that it was expressing, well, I probably would have thought that was impossible.

00;01;47;15 - 00;01;56;27

Pam

Today I'm talking to a guest whose work would have been very helpful for me, either before or even after smashing that glass.

00;01;57;00 - 00;02;21;16

Pam

Bahar Amanzadeh is an intuitive painting guide. Bahar facilitates workshops where participants can feel whatever it is they're feeling and intuitively paint from the body. There's no goal to produce a product, no analysis of whether a painting is good or beautiful, and no judgment, no shame about the feeling.

00;02;21;19 - 00;02;43;13

Pam

Bahar began a career in public health as a dentist. Her background in art led her to Kris Sydell, who trained Bahar to become an intuitive painting guide. Bahar’s work is primarily trauma informed. Anyone working through trauma can find themselves in a safe space where they can somatically express what they're feeling.

00;02;43;16 - 00;02;59;19

Pam

Bahar is also part of the Iranian diaspora. We talked about her own trauma during this time of war and the violence that the civilian population of Iran is currently facing, and how this practice of intuitive painting helps her to stay rooted

00;02;59;22 - 00;03;08;29

Pam

as she searches for belonging and community.

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Pam

You want to know how you can really help me keep this show going? Follow me on your favorite listening app. So easy, right? And if you really want to give the show a boost, leave me a five-star rating or review.

00;03;29;05 - 00;03;34;09

Pam

Hi Bahar, thank you so much for being on Art Heals All Wounds.

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Bahar

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Pam.

00;03;37;08 - 00;03;45;05

Pam

You know, I found out about your work through a mutual friend, Kristen, who made the beautiful film about bats.

00;03;45;07 - 00;03;52;11

Pam

And I'm not sure I know what an intuitive painting guide is,

00;03;52;14 - 00;03;55;26

Pam

Can you share what that, what that means?

00;03;55;28 - 00;03;57;12

Bahar

Of course. Yes.

00;03;57;16 - 00;04;08;18

Bahar

So intuitive painting guide or facilitator is somebody who facilitates that process of,

00;04;08;21 - 00;04;13;00

Bahar

helping the imagery and the colors and the,

00;04;13;02 - 00;04;35;22

Bahar

the express, the visual expression to lead the way to a full expression. And as a, as a guide, I help navigate that process of first helping people that I work with feel, feel that safety and feel into their senses and their grounding.

00;04;35;25 - 00;04;37;28

Bahar

And then from there,

00;04;38;01 - 00;04;50;25

Bahar

really creating the environment so that they feel that there's no judgment, there's no right or wrong. They can express themselves. And and then I'm there for them throughout the process.

00;04;50;28 - 00;04;56;22

Bahar

As things come up, you know, if you let your, your authentic self express itself, then,

00;04;56;25 - 00;04;59;13

Bahar

you know, the critic will get in the,

00;04;59;15 - 00;05;07;01

Bahar

you know, different parts of your emotion will come in and, and then so I'm trained to also hold that.

00;05;07;03 - 00;05;10;14

Bahar

So that's,

00;05;10;16 - 00;05;16;09

Bahar

my, my clients can really go into that, place of deep discovery.

00;05;16;11 - 00;05;28;21

Pam

Right? And I mean, of course, everyone I'm sure is welcome to these workshops, but it seems like this is really trauma based work.

00;05;28;23 - 00;05;30;15

Bahar

Correct. Yes.

00;05;30;18 - 00;05;33;15

Bahar

You know, by nature, this work,

00;05;33;19 - 00;05;37;02

Bahar

is trauma based in a way that,

00;05;37;06 - 00;05;43;21

Bahar

it's really somatic and it brings to choice and brings creates to safety.

00;05;43;24 - 00;05;47;17

Bahar

But also I had additional training in trauma healing,

00;05;47;17 - 00;05;48;07

Bahar

through,

00;05;48;07 - 00;05;53;04

Bahar

through the training by Gabor Maté compassionate inquiry and

00;05;53;04 - 00;05;59;00

Bahar

have tried to incorporate that further into this work.

00;05;59;03 - 00;06;18;24

Bahar

And mostly because that has been also my own path, this intuitive painting has helped me to heal. It's a process, you know, it's not like I'm healed and and done in the past, but it continues to be the process for me to, to heal the traumas and, and

00;06;18;24 - 00;06;25;22

Bahar

and be able to, to see, to see it all and to stay in that process.

00;06;25;25 - 00;06;28;08

Bahar

And so when I work,

00;06;28;11 - 00;06;41;25

Bahar

with people, I feel like first acknowledging that trauma means disconnection at some points, either in our childhood or in adult lives

00;06;41;28 - 00;06;53;25

Bahar

there have been things that have been hard for our psyche to to sit to it and to process. And then we decided to put them in a corner and put a wall.

00;06;53;28 - 00;07;02;17

Bahar

But by putting that wall, we also put a wall between ourselves and our connection to the world, our connection to our

00;07;02;20 - 00;07;21;18

Bahar

our wholeness. And in order for us to tap into that, to be able to connect to those parts of ourselves, connects to I alignment, connect to the spirits, or, you know, the, spiritual aspects of our lives.

00;07;21;21 - 00;07;45;04

Bahar

We need to feel that safety and that safety and that process of, you know, trauma informed healing happens somatically. It happens. It doesn't happen with analyzing. It happens through how we are re feeling and how we are, reconnecting.

00;07;45;11 - 00;07;54;21

Bahar

So that's why it's a very unique, very intuitive painting and, and trauma healing very uniquely go together

00;07;54;24 - 00;07;57;01

Bahar

and also when, you know, when you are,

00;07;57;05 - 00;07;59;27

Bahar

going that process of trauma healing,

00;08;00;02 - 00;08;04;13

Bahar

you may not have the words for it, which in many cases we don't.

00;08;04;15 - 00;08;16;29

Bahar

So the visuals and the somatic experience, the textures, the colors. And if we let ourselves go to that place, if there is a safe space, nonjudgmental space that helps us go there,

00;08;17;02 - 00;08;20;13

Bahar

then we can tap into that healing.

00;08;20;15 - 00;08;21;27

Pam

That's so interesting.

00;08;21;29 - 00;08;32;07

Pam

I'm so curious to know how you found your way to intuitive painting.

00;08;32;10 - 00;08;34;00

Bahar

Yes,

00;08;34;03 - 00;08;38;07

Bahar

art has been always my way of expressing myself,

00;08;38;10 - 00;08;40;26

Bahar

throughout my life. And,

00;08;40;29 - 00;08;45;14

Bahar

some years back, I think ten, 15 years ago, I met,

00;08;45;16 - 00;08;47;09

Bahar

my teacher, Chris Zydel,

00;08;47;09 - 00;08;55;18

Bahar

who trained me in this path of being the intuitive painting facilitator and having worked with her and having worked,

00;08;55;18 - 00;08;57;13

Bahar

you know, in that,

00;08;57;16 - 00;09;01;19

Bahar

that way of healing, how I, how it helped me,

00;09;01;22 - 00;09;08;25

Bahar

process my life and, you know, as a single mom, an immigrant, and,

00;09;08;28 - 00;09;12;11

Bahar

being a sensitive soul and just really,

00;09;12;11 - 00;09;23;15

Bahar

feeling all of that, and with my longing for home, longing for belonging and, you know, my my own,

00;09;23;18 - 00;09;24;19

Bahar

my own way of, like,

00;09;24;19 - 00;09;50;16

Bahar

trying to find my way in this world, in this new place. I was, intuitive painting helped me to find that grounding and bringing that to others, you know, holding that space for others. That's just. It is just. So is it. Even when I talk about that, it's just like, oh, what an honor it is to be able to bring that to others.

00;09;50;19 - 00;09;51;12

Bahar

And it's not like,

00;09;51;12 - 00;10;00;21

Bahar

I'm healing them. I am creating an environment, and I'm bringing art in a way that they can use that as a,

00;10;00;24 - 00;10;12;11

Bahar

as a tool, you know, as a, as a non-threatening tool that it helps, helps you like, feel into your, your psyche and your.

00;10;12;19 - 00;10;13;13

Pam

Your body.

00;10;13;13 - 00;10;15;23

Bahar

And, and where you are.

00;10;15;26 - 00;10;23;10

Pam

Right. So what you're describing is not the same as art therapy, correct?

00;10;23;12 - 00;10;29;04

Bahar

It's not. Yes. Yeah. And and and the difference is,

00;10;29;04 - 00;10;42;00

Bahar

you know, in art therapy there is some analysis of what you, you know, the colors you used, the shapes you used, the imagery and, and, and that has its own place.

00;10;42;03 - 00;10;53;04

Bahar

Well, what it does is that it brings you back to the mind. Maybe the part of doing art is more expressive then it brings back to the analysis, right?

00;10;53;07 - 00;11;05;18

Bahar

Whereas in intuitive painting, the whole process is an intuitive and process based process. So the promise of it and the foundation of it is that,

00;11;05;21 - 00;11;09;15

Bahar

if a meaning emerges from it in the process, like, you know,

00;11;09;15 - 00;11;15;27

Bahar

after you have really been in it, then yes, that's the meaning that it's a true meaning for you.

00;11;16;00 - 00;11;24;02

Bahar

But we are not going to force the mind to go into the meaning making part of it. And I think that part to,

00;11;24;05 - 00;11;33;10

Bahar

I think as a facilitator that's part of my, my, my job to, to kind of track that flow of expression in a person, right?

00;11;33;16 - 00;11;35;13

Bahar

and as creation it could be anything.

00;11;35;13 - 00;11;46;18

Bahar

It could be joy, it could be sadness. It could be that you love some things that you hate something. So, you know, all different spectrums of expression and feelings.

00;11;46;21 - 00;11;57;24

Bahar

And it could be that you need to put black on your page, all of the page. And who am I to say is right or wrong or what it means to you?

00;11;57;24 - 00;12;20;12

Bahar

It might be that actually that black is bringing you joy at this moment. It might be in another day that black will bring you sadness and, you know, and so that's what it is. But the body knows what it needs, you know. And it might be that today I just need to calm myself with this horizontal lines. And I will just follow that, right?

00;12;20;14 - 00;12;31;16

Bahar

And the other day I need to have like an explosive, loud expression of my anger, and, you know, and, and in a safe space that's safe to express also that.

00;12;31;18 - 00;12;38;08

Bahar

so, yeah, I think intuitive painting in that way is also more somatic. It's, it was really the way,

00;12;38;08 - 00;12;39;06

Bahar

I invite,

00;12;39;06 - 00;12;43;04

Bahar

people I work with to be we start with a meditation.

00;12;43;11 - 00;12;49;25

Bahar

I usually put nature based workshops or I bring them into the breathing at the beginning, some movement,

00;12;49;25 - 00;13;02;06

Bahar

some somatic movement. So they feel like their aliveness at the moment. And from there, what comes up and really bringing that non-judgment that all is welcome.

00;13;02;06 - 00;13;03;28

Bahar

To the to our,

00;13;03;28 - 00;13;05;25

Bahar

you know, work together.

00;13;05;27 - 00;13;18;07

Pam

That's so interesting. I think there's often so much emphasis on meaning. And the final product. Yes.

00;13;18;09 - 00;13;26;14

Bahar

Yeah. And, you know, that's that final product thing is what,

00;13;26;17 - 00;13;29;22

Bahar

haunts us, all haunts our creativity.

00;13;29;25 - 00;13;45;02

Bahar

You know, artists or not-artists and all of us are artists. A three year old version of all of us. With you to do. Grab a pencil or grab a piece of dirt and, you know, anything to express itself visually

00;13;45;05 - 00;14;11;16

Bahar

Bringing the focus back into the process, the process of healing. And one of the things that I, at the beginning, I bring on to people who work with me is, the product and what comes out of it. You don't even need to show this to anybody. You can burn it afterwards. You can, you know. So this is just you and your process and that painting.

00;14;11;16 - 00;14;15;06

Bahar

It's going to be the mirror of your expression.

00;14;15;09 - 00;14;25;18

Bahar

So like really reducing. And whenever anybody goes into what I really like when I want to make sure like this, you know, so that's why I like, I bring them back into,

00;14;25;18 - 00;14;31;20

Bahar

some easy ways, you know, using materials that are pretty forgiving,

00;14;31;26 - 00;14;32;21

Bahar

like, you know,

00;14;32;24 - 00;14;35;06

Bahar

you can use ten papers here.

00;14;35;08 - 00;14;35;26

Bahar

I can put

00;14;35;26 - 00;14;40;12

Bahar

as much paint that you want, any brush so that there is that,

00;14;40;12 - 00;14;47;25

Bahar

freedom of expression without the fear of the product, without the fear of judgment.

00;14;47;27 - 00;15;01;29

Pam

Right. I can imagine that it's really can be challenging to keep someone from slipping into that inner critic

00;15;02;02 - 00;15;09;08

Pam

is really, really so focused on what the product looks like.

00;15;09;10 - 00;15;13;20

Bahar

Very much. And, and that that's a, that's a big part of the process.

00;15;13;23 - 00;15;37;12

Bahar

One thing that I have found that that helps is too, at the beginning of my workshops or retreats to normalize that, hey, we all have an inner critic at one point or the other. It's gonna show up so that we know that it's there, you know, and and I think that's part of the inner exploration as well.

00;15;37;13 - 00;15;43;02

Bahar

Right. Just to know that the inner critic is there and when it comes in,

00;15;43;05 - 00;15;43;24

Bahar

then,

00;15;43;26 - 00;15;54;17

Bahar

recognize that. And I think as a facilitator, that's also my job to help navigate that. What was that voice with is that saying, you know, what is it bringing on in you?

00;15;54;17 - 00;15;56;00

Bahar

And trying to,

00;15;56;00 - 00;16;01;14

Bahar

listen to it, but not letting it take over my expression.

00;16;01;16 - 00;16;22;01

Pam

Yeah. That's so interesting. What can you describe? I mean, obviously without giving away personal details of participants, but what is a work what what are how do workshops go that you've led recently?

00;16;22;03 - 00;16;22;27

Bahar

Oh, yes.

00;16;22;27 - 00;16;27;04

Bahar

I had a workshop yesterday that I can reflect on.

00;16;27;07 - 00;16;37;01

Bahar

This one was a workshop by the team of rooted painting and Poetry under the redwoods. Wow. Yeah. So we got together. It was,

00;16;37;01 - 00;16;41;11

Bahar

seven of us in the redwoods in Oakland,

00;16;41;11 - 00;16;43;18

Bahar

Oakland hills. And.

00;16;43;20 - 00;16;46;20

Bahar

The theme helps people to,

00;16;46;20 - 00;16;54;11

Bahar

have a direction. And this one was about rootedness in these times of instability and times of,

00;16;54;14 - 00;17;09;27

Bahar

you know, from my people, from my own culture, in times of instability and war and displacement and all sorts of different things, but also other people like how what roots us, what sustains us,

00;17;10;00 - 00;17;11;05

Bahar

is it our ancestry.

00;17;11;05 - 00;17;19;05

Bahar

Is it in our culture? Is it in our daily life? What what brings on, brings that rejuvenation to us. So,

00;17;19;08 - 00;17;23;21

Bahar

with that theme, you know, we we got together and,

00;17;23;24 - 00;17;36;19

Bahar

I designed it to be the meditation and just are sitting under the redwoods and feeling into their roots and their rootedness,

00;17;36;22 - 00;17;37;15

Bahar

and,

00;17;37;15 - 00;17;40;01

Bahar

in doing some movement, some dance,

00;17;40;04 - 00;17;50;24

Bahar

with some music, letting you know the thing ourself to really feel into our bodies and how we are moving in the nature.

00;17;50;27 - 00;18;04;27

Bahar

And then doing some reflections, you know, like what you know, just one minute of free writing now, like, let's reflect on a few words. What are you. What are you sensing?

00;18;05;00 - 00;18;06;20

Bahar

What are you smelling?

00;18;06;23 - 00;18;10;06

Bahar

When you say rooted, what feelings come to you?

00;18;10;09 - 00;18;20;07

Bahar

And kind of going back into the voice and then the painting and, and then we go into the painting process, and each person finds where fits them.

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Bahar

And,

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Bahar

what color comes to them? What brushes?

00;18;24;02 - 00;18;32;25

Bahar

And really invite them to stay in that place of intuition. What are the,

00;18;32;27 - 00;18;50;14

Bahar

impulses that come to you without going to the mind of, like, you know. Yeah, I want to plan to have a, you know, draw a tree that has that kind of, you know, is bringing it back to the expression at the moment and creating that pathway to the intuition.

00;18;50;14 - 00;18;59;12

Bahar

And what's coming is it's a it's a practice, right. It comes over time. So having some exercises for, for them, you know,

00;18;59;14 - 00;19;32;20

Bahar

help them to kind of like going back into that, into intuitive place. And then as they are painting I go in and I check in with them. How is your process going? You know, and if they need to process anything with me, then I'm there to, to be their mirror and do that, that level of processing which, which could be therapeutic or, and it could be, it could help with the flow of the energy and for them to also hear themselves and, and and if I feel like somebody is, you know,

00;19;32;23 - 00;19;38;09

Bahar

stopped and they're locked, you know, I go and see like what's coming up for them.

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Bahar

And you know, this also having that safety of a circle when you do this work in a group,

00;19;45;01 - 00;19;56;20

Bahar

it's really healing, especially when you create that safety in the, in the group. You know, we all heal in community.

00;19;56;23 - 00;19;59;10

Bahar

Healing doesn't happen individually.

00;19;59;12 - 00;20;19;13

Bahar

And that's why when we have that safety and, and, you know, part of my job as a facilitator is to create that safety and that structure that everybody feels that, you know, they are okay the way they are. There's no judgment, there's no commenting, good or bad. We're all going to be, welcome as we are.

00;20;19;16 - 00;20;29;27

Bahar

And yeah, and then we go back again to sharing among ourselves and, and then like, really observing that transformation that even in a few hours happened,

00;20;30;00 - 00;20;39;06

Bahar

and it continues like I received a text from one of my students yesterday, this morning that this is moving through me, like what happened yesterday,

00;20;39;06 - 00;20;39;25

Bahar

like

00;20;39;27 - 00;20;43;15

Bahar

it still is moving through me. And,

00;20;43;17 - 00;20;44;29

Bahar

You know, with that,

00;20;45;01 - 00;20;54;21

Bahar

theme of rootedness and having, my Iranian and community, Iranian diaspora and, and other,

00;20;54;23 - 00;20;57;06

Bahar

people in diaspora or,

00;20;57;09 - 00;21;03;09

Bahar

those who have been born and raised here, that also creates another level of healing.

00;21;03;12 - 00;21;04;05

Pam

And we are.

00;21;04;05 - 00;21;12;17

Bahar

All rooting for belonging. Right? We're all rooting for creating this together. And,

00;21;12;19 - 00;21;18;23

Bahar

yeah. So, such a deep work, you know, to witness.

00;21;19;01 - 00;21;21;27

Pam

Right? Right.

00;21;22;00 - 00;21;30;23

Pam

Well, it's hard to ignore the elephant in the room that right now for the Iranian

00;21;30;23 - 00;21;45;17

Pam

diaspora and, you know, for the people of Iran as well. But I know that you're here. This must be such a hard time. And.

00;21;45;20 - 00;21;49;15

Pam

That feeling.

00;21;49;18 - 00;21;53;21

Pam

Of rootedness is so interesting because,

00;21;53;23 - 00;22;02;27

Pam

I'm feeling or I'm guessing that right now it would be very hard to feel rooted.

00;22;02;29 - 00;22;04;07

Bahar

Very much.

00;22;04;10 - 00;22;09;12

Bahar

Yeah. And that has been something that I have had to,

00;22;09;14 - 00;22;23;10

Bahar

wit with, myself. You know, how how we say the whole concept of the wounded healer or we bring in something that we also have gone through or are going through and need,

00;22;23;10 - 00;22;26;00

Bahar

need more of and,

00;22;26;02 - 00;22;26;24

Bahar

Throughout,

00;22;26;26 - 00;22;36;11

Bahar

this past few months, you know, the hardship of it and the instability and, the,

00;22;36;11 - 00;22;42;07

Bahar

and I think all of us are broken, heart broken hearted at this time,

00;22;42;09 - 00;22;44;14

Bahar

longing for the safety of,

00;22;44;17 - 00;22;46;26

Bahar

our homeland,

00;22;46;29 - 00;22;51;09

Bahar

not knowing how our families are doing, not knowing how,

00;22;51;12 - 00;23;00;02

Bahar

you know, Iran, which is, you know, we all have this deep connection to our homeland.

00;23;00;05 - 00;23;07;02

Bahar

You know, what's going to happen and, and, and really, you know, having living in two geographies and,

00;23;07;02 - 00;23;23;25

Bahar

living here, but you are part of you is back there, and you're not able to connect with your families, you know, just all of that and the not knowing and the violence of our times,

00;23;23;27 - 00;23;25;28

Bahar

As you said, it uproots us.

00;23;26;00 - 00;23;29;19

Bahar

It has been hard. And,

00;23;29;22 - 00;23;34;07

Bahar

and one of the things that I had to,

00;23;34;10 - 00;23;41;21

Bahar

To sit with myself is actually in this time is the time that I need to,

00;23;41;24 - 00;23;50;13

Bahar

let my roots dig deeper, go even deeper, and find my rootedness and find this stability.

00;23;50;16 - 00;24;12;19

Bahar

What are the things in my culture that roots me with? what are the things in my ancestry that roots me, or the things in this, in this land that's roots me, my community here, the human connection that I can experience and, and you know, I go, I have had to go for each of them with such some thirst.

00;24;12;22 - 00;24;18;17

Bahar

I have had to read the poetry of Rumi and Hafiz reads like, this is medicine.

00;24;18;18 - 00;24;20;12

Pam

Like give me some medicine.

00;24;20;14 - 00;24;30;16

Bahar

I need to stay alive. And not only for myself, you know, for I feel like for my people, for for the culture, for,

00;24;30;19 - 00;24;35;02

Bahar

for existence. And,

00;24;35;04 - 00;24;37;29

Bahar

And you know, that that was that's what informed,

00;24;38;02 - 00;24;46;08

Bahar

this theme in my workshop to feel like that's the need of our times to,

00;24;46;08 - 00;25;05;10

Bahar

for Iranian diaspora the most. And for me, because I also I'm part of that. I'm bringing that I'm coming in as who I am. In my workshops, I usually bring some poetry, some Persian poetry.

00;25;05;12 - 00;25;10;03

Bahar

You know, some Sufi poetry, which has been my spiritual grounding, some,

00;25;10;06 - 00;25;26;19

Bahar

some music and, and let people both from the Iranian diaspora and, and outside of Iranian diaspora, feel into that and feel our connection, our unity through that, you know, and,

00;25;26;22 - 00;25;35;26

Bahar

You know, just reflecting on one of the participants yesterday, how.

00;25;35;28 - 00;26;01;12

Bahar

How hard it was for her to sit with the hardship of these times. Right. And with her, you know, it’s Okay. You're here safe. We're here together. If tears need to come, they need to come. Any color that comes with that comes with that. Any words? Let's be in that full expression. And then going back into the groundedness, you know.

00;26;01;12 - 00;26;02;07

Bahar

So.

00;26;02;09 - 00;26;21;16

Pam

Right. It's such a courageous thing though, because it would feel like there'd be so much pressure to disconnect, as you said earlier. And to sit with that broken heart,

00;26;21;19 - 00;26;27;04

Pam

is so incredibly it takes such a tremendous amount of courage.

00;26;27;06 - 00;26;31;07

Bahar

It does. It does.

00;26;31;09 - 00;26;31;27

Bahar

And,

00;26;32;01 - 00;26;46;27

Bahar

and it's hard to do that alone. And I that's why I feel like we need this medium of arts and and community to help us to go to those places.

00;26;46;29 - 00;26;51;02

Pam

Right.

00;26;51;04 - 00;27;02;12

Bahar

Because Iranian community right now is going through trauma. It's happening now. You know, those children who are right now in the middle of it,

00;27;02;15 - 00;27;07;20

Bahar

like many other places that are going through war and genocide and, and,

00;27;07;20 - 00;27;28;26

Bahar

and violence, you know, that's being in the midst of the trauma. Right? And. And having the courage to to sit with that, sit with the broken heartedness, sit with the,

00;27;28;28 - 00;27;32;12

Bahar

with even darkness of that time.

00;27;32;14 - 00;27;43;19

Bahar

That's what helps us to heal from it and to come, come out a little more sane, come out a little more rejuvenated.

00;27;43;22 - 00;27;47;26

Bahar

And of course there is a, you know, there's our nervous system knows

00;27;47;29 - 00;27;55;17

Bahar

how far to go, right. We need to feel that safe there to go. There might be times that I'm not ready to go there.

00;27;55;19 - 00;28;07;01

Bahar

I might be times that I just need to experience joy, that I can’t sit with that. Right. And there might be times that I'm realizing that black,

00;28;07;08 - 00;28;22;04

Bahar

monster, that it's sitting in the closet, that I have closed the door to, that that is there. I want to open that door and see, you know, look at it, look at it eye to eye.

00;28;22;06 - 00;28;23;04

Bahar

And,

00;28;23;07 - 00;28;34;29

Bahar

Yeah. And that that's where the transformation happens. You know to bring that to the yin and yang. Right. Bring that to our whole healing process.

00;28;35;02 - 00;28;38;11

Pam

Right? Right.

00;28;38;13 - 00;28;52;26

Pam

So are you saying that the transformation happens when we're ready to open that door, as you would say, or is it more finding that balance?

00;28;52;29 - 00;29;05;06

Bahar

Transformation happens in the process. And it happens at any moment that we let ourselves,

00;29;05;09 - 00;29;29;13

Bahar

go to that place of authenticity and expression and transformation doesn't have to be all or nothing, right? It can happen incrementally and with each level of safety that we feel and we let ourselves feel that,

00;29;29;16 - 00;29;31;27

Bahar

our full existence,

00;29;32;00 - 00;29;38;06

Bahar

we are opening up to transformation a little bit at a time.

00;29;38;09 - 00;29;49;08

Bahar

And then at some point, you will realize, you know, that's how you are. You're walking differently. You know, you're connecting to your environment differently. You're breathing differently.

00;29;49;15 - 00;30;00;04

Bahar

You're able to to hold, you know, you're able to do that. You're able to hold that,

00;30;00;07 - 00;30;02;29

Bahar

As you said, the balance of,

00;30;03;02 - 00;30;20;22

Bahar

sit with what adversities sit what's coming towards us and be able to find a voice, be able to find expression that is authentic to you. You know, for me, I have had to find, my own unique voice as an,

00;30;20;22 - 00;30;26;27

Bahar

Iranian in the diaspora, Iranian living in the US in the time of the war.

00;30;26;29 - 00;31;01;13

Bahar

Right. And sitting in that balance of saying, yes, you know, if the rage wants to come out, that rage at that time is my voice. You know, art is my resilience. I am going to where I'm going to say no to war. I'm going to say no to violence. You know, so sitting in that, to that voice, right, sitting to, to what comes out and then finding the grounding again.

00;31;01;13 - 00;31;07;05

Bahar

Right, right. And, and being fed by that. I don’t know if I answered your question.

00;31;07;05 - 00;31;16;19

Pam

Now, you did. And as you were speaking, I was just reflecting that earlier. I'm going to paraphrase, but.

00;31;16;21 - 00;31;49;20

Pam

We are all works in progress. Yes. And the progress does not necessarily just chug right along forward always. You know, that the, the, the fact of being human is that some days it may feel like it's going backwards, but maybe doing this kind of work gives you different tools to work with that.

00;31;49;22 - 00;31;56;11

Bahar

Very much is such a good way of saying that. Yes. Yeah.

00;31;56;13 - 00;32;01;05

Bahar

Having this kind of work, having this kind of practice,

00;32;01;08 - 00;32;11;00

Bahar

as you know, for me, has been definitely that that way that I have this practice, that time and space to go

00;32;11;00 - 00;32;19;24

Bahar

in, invite all of me, invite all of my expressions, all of my feelings at that moment, and be able to,

00;32;19;27 - 00;32;23;11

Bahar

let the paint be that,

00;32;23;13 - 00;32;26;02

Bahar

non-threatening way of expression.

00;32;26;07 - 00;32;42;19

Bahar

Right. So I may not have any words for you know, for what's going on inside me at the time, but having this tool helps, helps that expression.

00;32;42;22 - 00;32;45;00

Bahar

Yeah. It's,

00;32;45;02 - 00;32;47;13

Bahar

it's like,

00;32;47;15 - 00;32;48;00

Bahar

that,

00;32;48;00 - 00;32;51;26

Bahar

that expression that it becomes your mirror.

00;32;51;29 - 00;32;55;03

Bahar

Painting really does become your mirror. If,

00;32;55;06 - 00;33;00;20

Bahar

you know, having having a tool like this,

00;33;00;22 - 00;33;03;17

Bahar

Has given me that,

00;33;03;19 - 00;33;12;01

Bahar

place of safety, you know, and you create like meditation practice, like any other practice, you deepen that, you know, your nervous system.

00;33;12;04 - 00;33;12;18

Pam

Which is,

00;33;12;19 - 00;33;13;28

Pam

identifies that.

00;33;14;00 - 00;33;18;12

Bahar

As, as a pathway, you know, as a safe pathway that,

00;33;18;12 - 00;33;18;22

Bahar

kind of

00;33;18;23 - 00;33;21;10

Bahar

like I'm able to go there and,

00;33;21;16 - 00;33;28;17

Bahar

just express myself, you know, and, and feel that,

00;33;28;19 - 00;33;38;18

Bahar

you know, it's like a river, as you said, you know, like a progress right, the river. And that's why I have named my website Painting the River as the, the, the river within.

00;33;38;18 - 00;33;42;02

Bahar

I it's it's never stagnant. Right.

00;33;42;02 - 00;33;44;05

Bahar

It's not a lake. It's a river.

00;33;44;08 - 00;33;45;16

Pam

You know, it's.

00;33;45;16 - 00;33;58;13

Bahar

It moves through us. And in each moment it finds a shape. It finds a different rock. Sometimes it might be a slow. Sometimes it might be fast, you know, and it might be a waterfall.

00;33;58;16 - 00;34;12;15

Bahar

But it's alive. Regardless of where it is. It's it's always alive and and and connecting to that aliveness. And

00;34;12;17 - 00;34;15;07

Bahar

and removing the judgment from the process and

00;34;15;07 - 00;34;16;27

Bahar

the judgment of

00;34;17;00 - 00;34;18;16

Bahar

if I'm happy,

00;34;18;19 - 00;34;20;11

Bahar

then I'm good.

00;34;20;13 - 00;34;34;13

Bahar

Just like a normalizing that's connecting to all sorts of feelings and all sorts of, maybe past traumas that want to come in or the current joys that want to come in. All of that is,

00;34;34;15 - 00;34;36;09

Bahar

part of our aliveness

00;34;36;12 - 00;34;40;22

Bahar

and inviting them all into it. Right?

00;34;40;24 - 00;34;49;17

Bahar

There is something about being a witness in that process. Something about,

00;34;49;19 - 00;35;17;14

Bahar

Having another and I think and that's why therapy is helpful. Right. And this is, bringing also the visual world or painting also as a witness to who we are. And to that I feel like as an artist, that's why I paint, that's why I write. It's like I need that witness. I need that feedback, you know, to to to feel the aliveness.

00;35;17;17 - 00;35;28;18

Bahar

And, and then when you do that with another human being, when there is that witnessing in another level, then there is,

00;35;28;21 - 00;35;46;28

Bahar

There's a tacit there's a confirmation to that aliveness. You know, you let if there are rocks that are blocking the aliveness, if the water has been blocked somewhere, then you know, you can there's some help to for you to move through that. And,

00;35;47;01 - 00;35;49;12

Bahar

yeah, that, that connection, that,

00;35;49;15 - 00;35;58;26

Bahar

human connection. And then the visuals, the, the symbolic when they show up in the work, the,

00;35;58;29 - 00;36;00;28

Bahar

Like this painting, you see behind me,

00;36;00;28 - 00;36;06;23

Bahar

that has this was from one of my dreams that showed up in the painting with this mother.

00;36;06;26 - 00;36;08;00

Pam

deer with three little.

00;36;08;00 - 00;36;14;10

Bahar

deers and just working, you know, walking in that field and,

00;36;14;12 - 00;36;16;11

Bahar

I don't need to know what,

00;36;16;13 - 00;36;28;17

Bahar

what it means. Right? But I know that symbol has stayed with me and has fed me over time. Now, the thing with that imagery, right?

00;36;28;19 - 00;36;47;15

Pam

Yeah. Right. And just again, thinking about rivers like there are going to be times when the river overflows its banks, which is another great moment to be in community. Really?

00;36;47;17 - 00;36;55;06

Bahar

Yes. Very much. Yeah. You know, we all.

00;36;55;09 - 00;37;04;03

Bahar

Long for connection and we all, long for,

00;37;04;06 - 00;37;14;15

Bahar

for being alive. And, there are times in life, as you said, that there is,

00;37;14;17 - 00;37;18;16

Bahar

that we will be in the, in the banks and will be,

00;37;18;18 - 00;37;26;27

Bahar

we need, we need to resource also back and our we need to go back to that. That's the spring that we go back to

00;37;26;27 - 00;37;30;06

Bahar

let the resources feed us and bring us back to the aliveness.

00;37;30;06 - 00;37;34;22

Bahar

And that's part of our human existence. Right. And,

00;37;34;25 - 00;37;38;17

Bahar

just knowing that, you know, and

00;37;38;19 - 00;37;49;12

Bahar

having ways to also connect, you know, create that and for me creating that,

00;37;49;15 - 00;37;58;03

Bahar

I know the word community is overused. But creating that, you know, for you know, for,

00;37;58;06 - 00;38;10;21

Bahar

people in different communities and including the, you know, the Iranian diaspora just bringing us back together and back to our resources, back to our aliveness.

00;38;10;23 - 00;38;12;12

Pam

Right.

00;38;12;14 - 00;38;16;24

Bahar

And that happens only by sitting with what it is. Right?

00;38;16;27 - 00;38;19;00

Pam

Right, right.

00;38;19;03 - 00;38;21;02

Pam

Well, Bahar, this has been

00;38;21;02 - 00;38;22;01

Pam

so.

00;38;22;07 - 00;38;43;19

Pam

Enlightening. Also refreshing to hear this right now. And I'm sure there are a lot of people who would perhaps want to be a part of one of these workshops. Where can they get in touch with you and find out more about what you're doing?

00;38;43;21 - 00;38;44;14

Bahar

Thank you.

00;38;44;19 - 00;38;48;14

Bahar

My website is paintingtheriver.com

00;38;48;17 - 00;38;50;20

Bahar

and,

00;38;50;20 - 00;38;51;02

Bahar

I also

00;38;51;02 - 00;38;52;06

Bahar

on Instagram,

00;38;52;11 - 00;38;58;27

Bahar

artforhealing7. My, it's my handle on Instagram. And,

00;38;59;00 - 00;39;05;13

Bahar

yeah, I would be happy to invite anybody into my,

00;39;05;15 - 00;39;09;11

Bahar

group work and to my workshops and to the

00;39;09;11 - 00;39;15;28

Bahar

one on one work that I do with others, to the works I do with organizations.

00;39;16;00 - 00;39;17;19

Bahar

And bring that into,

00;39;17;21 - 00;39;24;19

Bahar

creating healthier trauma informed environments in organizations. And,

00;39;24;21 - 00;39;30;21

Bahar

yeah, you can find me on my website paintingtheriver.com.

00;39;30;24 - 00;39;32;00

Pam

Thank you so much.

00;39;32;00 - 00;39;34;11

Pam

such a pleasure to talk to you.

00;39;34;13 - 00;39;38;15

Bahar

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

00;39;38;17 - 00;39;52;22

Pam

You're listening to Art Heals All Wounds.

00;39;56;19 - 00;40;16;25

Pam

Thank you so much to Bahar Amanzadeh for being on the show today and sharing about her intuitive painting workshops. I'll put her information in the show notes so that you can reach out to her. Thank you for listening today. I'm not currently using social media, but you can always reach me through my website,

00;40;16;27 - 00;40;26;15

Pam

arthealsallwoundspodcast.com. I also share information about the show on Substack, so feel free to follow there as well.

00;40;26;18 - 00;40;31;27

Pam

The music you've heard in this podcast is by Ketsa, Lobo Loco and Barbara Higbie.