Adoption, and Identity: I Would Meet You Anywhere with Susan Kiyo Ito

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This episode of 'Art Heals All Wounds' features a conversation with Susan Kiyo Ito, author of 'I Would Meet You Anywhere,' focusing on her experiences as a transracial adoptee seeking connection with her birth and adoptive families. Susan and I talk about adoptees' quests for origin and belonging, highlighting the role art and creativity play in exploring and understanding complex identities. Susan's story, encompassing her journey to find her birth mother and the dynamics within her adoptive family, underscores broader themes of identity, belonging, and the resilience required to navigate the emotional landscapes of adoption. The episode also discusses the societal and legal challenges adoptees face in accessing birth records, while celebrating the power of storytelling in building connections and fostering understanding.

00:00 Opening: The Power of Art to Heal

00:43 Introducing Susan Kiyo Ito and Her Journey

01:51 The Complexities of Adoption and Identity

03:26 Susan's Story: A Quest for Connection

04:05 Engaging with Susan: The Interview Begins

05:44 Exploring Family Dynamics and Ethnic Identity

15:38 The Impact of Historical Trauma and Fear

20:38 The Evolution of Family Relationships

31:59 The Importance of Telling Your Own Story

33:18 Celebrating Susan's Book Success and Closing Thoughts

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• Watch for Susan's Appearance on the Constellation Reading Series

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Pam Uzzell: Do you believe art can change the world? So do I! On this show, we meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell.

[00:00:43] I have this beautiful little origami crane that sits on my bookshelf and I was looking at it a lot as I was thinking about what I wanted to say to introduce today's guest. I got this paper crane from a book reading event with Susan Kiyo Ito for her book, I Would Meet You Anywhere. Susan made dozens of these little paper birds and they were all in this basket so that anyone who wanted to could take one home with them.

[00:01:16] In her book, Susan describes struggling to learn how to make origami cranes. Her fingers just felt so clumsy and she went through sheet after sheet of the little paper trying to fold a crane correctly. After a while, she started wondering, is it because I'm just not Japanese enough?

[00:01:44] Susan's adoptive parents are both Japanese. Susan is half Japanese and half white. When I was growing up, I thought so much about the fact that I didn't match my parents in terms of how I looked. And, I can only imagine how much more that stays on the minds in the case of transracial adoptees. I think, there are two big quests for adoptees, especially those of us born during the period known as the baby scoop era, when adoptions were kept all secret and records were kept from both adoptive parents and adult adoptees searching for answers.

[00:02:28] The first quest is finding your birth parents, even if you don't want to meet them necessarily. You want to know what's the story behind me? What are my origins? What's my ethnic heritage even? And the second big quest is making sense of how you fit in with your adoptive family. Do you fit in at all? How do you make that relationship work?

[00:03:00] In the course of doing this show, I've learned that so many guests whether they're adopted or not, have some of these same questions. Maybe some of you listening even have these questions. I think reading Susan's book will inspire you. It's such a courageous and unflinching account of Susan's quest to connect all the dots of her life.

[00:03:26] Susan Ito has been reading and writing almost since she could walk. Her book, I Would Meet You Anywhere, is the result of her decision to embrace her right to know her own story and to share it.

[00:03:49] You want to know how you can really help me keep this show going? Follow me on your favorite listening app. So easy, right? And if you really want to give the show a boost, leave me a five star rating or review.

[00:04:05] Hi, Susan. I'm so glad that you are coming onto Art Heals All Wounds and super excited to talk about your book. I Would Meet You Anywhere. So can you just start with a little introduction of yourself and of this book? 

[00:04:22] Susan Ito: Hi, Pam. Thank you so much. It's really an honor to be here and I can't think of a better more aptly titled podcast than yours. It seems custom made really for this book. So my book is a memoir, I Would Meet You Anywhere, and it's about kind of a lifelong journey of being adopted, searching for birth family, trying to understand identity and my place in family belonging and all the things. 

[00:04:52] Pam Uzzell: I know, I know, and I was so fortunate to go to one of your readings and Q& As [00:05:00] very recently, and I asked you this question at the Q& A, or I made this comment, that when I was reading your book, I just thought, wow, she is so brave and brave in the way that you face this journey, the ongoing journey relationship, I would say with your birth mother and also brave in the way that you continued to deepen your connections with your adoptive family. I think when you're adopted those are the two things, right? Like your birth family, where did I come from?

[00:05:40] Do I belong there? And then your adoptive family, do I belong here? And I'm wondering if you could just give an overview of this search for your birth family that you were talking to. And then after that, I'd like to go back a little bit and talk about your place in your adoptive family. 

[00:05:58] Susan Ito: Well, they're really intertwined, right? You know, it's kind of hard to talk about one without the other. I started thinking about searching when I was really young, and it happened because of a serendipitous trip to the library, my town library, when I was 12 or 13 years old, and I found a memoir written by another adoptee, Florence Fisher, and her book was called The Search for Anna Fisher, and it really was the seed that was planted in my mind about what it meant to be an adoptee was the first time I had read that word adoptee.

[00:06:31] Like what is that even? What does that mean? Right? And As it turned out I couldn't really join the organization that she started Alma until I was 18, but my adoptive family was incredibly supportive from day one. They were incredibly supportive and I can't stress enough what that meant to me that it gave me a sense of security that I could go out and search for birth family and for answers to my questions without feeling that it threatens my place in my adoptive family.

[00:07:04] And that meant everything to me. I think that made a huge, huge difference. And I know that that's not true for all adoptees. And I was very, very aware of that. So I did find my birth mother early on when I was in college and then the subsequent decades of having a very up and down relationship with her, you know, I always came back to my adoptive family for anchoring and for, for grounding. And I feel really fortunate in that regard that I feel very grounded in that family. 

[00:07:40] Pam Uzzell: Yeah. 

[00:07:41] Susan Ito: When you said the word brave earlier, you're not the first person to use that word. And every time I hear it, I get a little like, you know, is it brave or is it foolish? I, I don't know, because I think there's a fine line, right? Cause I didn't feel, I have not felt like a brave person. I've just felt like I've just been making my way through this experience and it's often been very frightening and uncertain and all kinds of things and it always kind of shocks me when people say that I'm like, yeah brave or foolish I'm not quite sure It has come up more than once 

[00:08:17] Pam Uzzell: I have a few thoughts about your particular story. You were very young when you first met your birth mother, and if I go back in time to how I was, I, what I think about young women is that we often impulsively put up with things that maybe as an older woman, we might not put up with, and there are pros and cons to that, and I think of a young woman, were you 20? You were 20 when you met your birth mother, and I think many young women are willing to accept a lot of risk, a lot of complicated relationships that older women just don't have the tolerance for but I nevertheless think that bravery is the right word. I think that it is a combination of things how old you were, how resilient you were, what a strong anchor you had in your adoptive family. I think it's a lot of things but I think honestly some of the things when you describe them about your relationship with your birth mother I just think, I would be done.

[00:09:30] I would be done. I couldn't handle what felt like rejection as I read it in your story. And that's what I mean by brave is that the ability to deal with challenging feelings that you are probably having. That's what I mean by brave. 

[00:09:47] Susan Ito: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. It's complicated. It's very complicated. And yeah, I questioned myself too. What if I had been older, how things would have been different and I [00:10:00] am older now and I do have a different relationship to things. 

[00:10:04] Pam Uzzell: Yes, let's go bring in your adoptive family again, though, because you included anecdotes that were both very, very endearing. The three of you getting up in the middle of the night to watch the film, what was the name of the film?

[00:10:20] Susan Ito: Go for Broke. 

[00:10:21] Pam Uzzell: Go for Broke. I love that story. I could just picture that scene, but then other ways that you felt like you were not fitting in to your family and to maybe even your larger community. And I'm wondering if you would talk about how much of your ethnic difference played a role in your search for your biological and birth family.

[00:10:47] Susan Ito: Yeah, I don't think I mentioned in the beginning when I was doing my little summary that I'm biracial, I'm half white and half Japanese, and my adoptive parents are both second generation Japanese American, and so is my birth mother. And I think this is true for many transracial adoptees. Many transracial adoptees are people of color adopted into a white family.

[00:11:10] Really, the definition of transracial means that you're of a different race or a different background. And so I felt like I was very aware of the fact that we didn't quote unquote match and that it was conspicuous and that they couldn't really hide the fact that I was adopted. We didn't really pass as a non adopted family.

[00:11:29] And so I think, I think that is a real catalyst for many transracial adoptees. Feeling like, well, who do I look like? And where do I come from? And what am I made of? What is my ethnicity? Because people would say, I would go around saying, well, I'm half Japanese, kind of defensively. And then they would say, well, what's the other half?

[00:11:51] And I would just say, I don't know. You know, your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea. And I think not having the answer to that question really was a driving factor for me that it bugged me because I could just be going along, having my normal everyday life and somebody out of the blue would come up and ask me that question and I would just be

[00:12:13] blindsided by this question. It would remind me that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. 

[00:12:21] Pam Uzzell: Right. I think your parents were also very brave knowing, like, we're not going to pass. People are going to know that Susan is adopted. And they seemed so fine with that. 

[00:12:33] Susan Ito: They were. They were great. It didn't make any difference to them.

[00:12:36] There's an anecdote that I didn't actually make it into the book that my dad told me about. When we were traveling once. We were driving down to Florida for a family vacation and we stopped somewhere in the south. I don't know if it was Georgia or South Carolina or somewhere in there. We stopped at a hotel and the hotel clerk was very suspicious of my parents and implied that maybe they had kidnapped me and implied that maybe they were going to call the police because they didn't really believe that I was their child.

[00:13:10] And what are these two Orientals doing with this white looking baby. And my dad just, he felt, he read the room, he felt the vibe that was going on and he, he got us out of there real quick and we went down the road and went to another place. But he talks about that. And, you know, I think without having a lot of consciousness about, adoption or race,

[00:13:38] he never talked about those kinds of things, but he was telling me that not everybody thought this was okay. 

[00:13:44] Pam Uzzell: Yeah, that's a really, that's a really troubling story, but not surprising. Going back to your birth mother and your adoptive parents, they also had very different histories based on where they were born and grew up.

[00:14:03] I'm wondering if you could talk about that as well. 

[00:14:07] Susan Ito: So they both grew up in the time of World War II. My adoptive parents were a little older than my birth mother was, and they were born in New York City. My father was born in the Bronx, and my mother was born in Brooklyn, and their parents all came from Japan.

[00:14:24] And so they were in their 20s at the time of World War II, and my father enlisted in the 442nd, which is what the Go for Broke movie is all about, the all Japanese American regiment, and they, they fought in Europe. And they were not incarcerated like the West Coast Japanese Americans were, and my birth mother was part of that.

[00:14:46] So her family was incarcerated in the camps during the war and she was a child at the time and all of their belongings, their home, their business were all taken away from them at the time [00:15:00] of the camps. And so when they got out, they really had nothing to return back to on the West Coast. And they ended up in a very tiny town in the kind of middle of nowhere.

[00:15:11] And I shouldn't say that it's not nowhere in the middle of the country in a very tiny town and very racially isolated. They were the only Asian family at all. And I think that really shaped her life and shaped my life. I think it really impacted me even existing. So I feel like I am really a product of

[00:15:34] US policy during that wartime. 

[00:15:38] Pam Uzzell: One thing I think about with your birth mother too is the effect of lasting trauma. 

[00:15:43] Susan Ito: Yes. 

[00:15:44] Pam Uzzell: You know, her family being incarcerated, losing everything, being uprooted. I mean, those are just the physical parts of it, but being under suspicion, that sort of thing. I think really that can't be downplayed at all.

[00:16:00] Susan Ito: Yeah. I mean, I think layers upon layers of trauma, and I think so hard and so hard to talk about, so hard to manage, and I think cannot be underestimated. I'm really fully aware of that. 

[00:16:18] Pam Uzzell: I think you're brave in relationship to your birth mother, and I think she's very fearful. 

[00:16:22] Susan Ito: Oh yeah, extremely. 

[00:16:23] Pam Uzzell: Yeah, I've tried to think about that fear. You know, when you read something, you try and always put yourself in the place of a character and think, Okay, so what would be causing me fear? And her husband knew about you. I think for me that would be if I had a secret from a partner or someone like that, that would be the extreme root of my fear.

[00:16:44] But then I feel like that's probably not realistic, especially for her. There's also the fear of being judged in a way that maybe does go back to that original trauma. 

[00:16:56] Susan Ito: Absolutely. They were judged as people. 

[00:16:59] Pam Uzzell: Right. 

[00:17:00] Susan Ito: Just as people from, from day one. And so I think that stays with you, that judgment. And even though it might not seem rational to some people, like, what is it? It's not a big deal. So you know, whatever. I think it is a big deal. And I think it's something that's just so core. And so deep, and I think just layers and layers, you know, that it wasn't just one thing, it was many, many things. 

[00:17:27] Pam Uzzell: And I think too just, at that time, as a woman being pregnant without being married, talk about judgment.

[00:17:36] Susan Ito: Yes. And let alone being pregnant with someone of a different race, the, all the things, all the things. 

[00:17:44] Pam Uzzell: It's very complicated. 

[00:17:46] Susan Ito: It is. 

[00:17:47] Pam Uzzell: She does come across as very fearful. 

[00:17:49] Susan Ito: And I feel bad about that because I feel like I have contributed to that fear.

[00:17:54] I didn't do a lot to allay that fear. And I, I think especially with this book, you know, I feel like I didn't help. 

[00:18:01] Pam Uzzell: But so much time has passed since you first met her. So I'm gonna personally, for what it's worth, let you off the hook about that. 

[00:18:13] Susan Ito: Okay, thank you. 

[00:18:15] Pam Uzzell: Because if she hasn't come to the realization of your right to know who you are and tell your own story, I think that that's on her.

[00:18:29] Really, she's had time to integrate this idea of you in the world as her daughter, and she hasn't done it. And you also found that you had half siblings as well, and you began a relationship with one of them, uh, which imploded because your birth mother got angry, and I felt you were very unfairly blamed for something, and the daughter also cut you off with a lot of anger, and I felt like, so this is me saying this, this is not Susan saying this, if your birth mother ever hears this, but I feel like that spoke of a certain insecurity of their bond as well.

[00:19:15] That's me saying it, not you. 

[00:19:18] Susan Ito: I don't know. We haven't had a lot of communication, hardly any communication around this, and I feel like everyone has just done the best they could and that they are understandably and righteously very protective of her. And if something was harming her, that they were going to protect her.

[00:19:39] You know, it makes me sad, but also it doesn't surprise me. 

[00:19:44] Pam Uzzell: Obviously, I'm biased, but I think even in an objective sense, what you did was not that harmful of an act. It was just asking questions. It wasn't like you were publicizing this question in any way. It was just asking her questions, which was really what [00:20:00] she was so fearful of, is giving information and answering questions.

[00:20:05] So, 

[00:20:06] Susan Ito: yeah. 

[00:20:07] Pam Uzzell: But it's a beautifully written book. It's a very moving story. And I feel like the thing that I love about it is that it seemed in your book that you had a closer relationship with your father or an easier relationship with your father. 

[00:20:23] Susan Ito: It was very unambivalent. 

[00:20:26] Pam Uzzell: Yes. And with your mother, it was more challenging and that the universe gave you time to have that relationship with your adoptive mother grow.

[00:20:38] So can you talk about like the ongoing story of you and your adoptive family? 

[00:20:42] Susan Ito: Sure. I was totally a daddy's girl and I just felt like he was unambiguously just delighted by every single thing about me. You know, he just would light up when I came into the room. And you feel that when somebody has that response to you, you know, you feel that.

[00:20:59] And my mother was a very tough cookie. She was raised like in the streets of Brooklyn with two very tough brothers. And they kind of, you know, ran around on the streets and It was so funny at my dad's funeral, these older Japanese New Yorkers came up to me and they're like, Oh, we remember we were, we were afraid of your mom.

[00:21:20] She's like four foot 10, but she like, put up your dukes, you know, she was really not to be messed with. And I think for a large part of my life, I didn't understand her language for love. I mean now I have no doubt about it, but for a lot of my life, I didn't understand it. I was a little afraid of her because she was tough and I was really soft.

[00:21:47] I was a really soft, quiet, compliant kind of child and literally they would be like, all we'd have to do is look at you and you would be like, And that's true. I was very easily dealt with. I never disobeyed or anything. I was a super good adoptee. I felt very close to my dad, although it's interesting, like in retrospect, when you feel things as a child or a young adult, and then you look back as an older adult and you understand things better, like he was a traveling salesman.

[00:22:18] And he was literally, I don't know if these numbers made it into the book or not, but he was literally on the road 40 weeks a year. So that means he was only home 12 weeks out of the year. He was in other states. He was driving around selling knickknacks to gift shops. And I never really understood how hard that was on my mom.

[00:22:41] That she was basically a single mom for 40 weeks out of the year. And of course that's going to make anybody a little cranky. She had to deal with a lot. I have pictures of her shoveling snow and raking leaves and fixing the furnace and doing all the dad things because he was in North Carolina or wherever he was.

[00:23:02] So I feel like I'm looking back on them and all of our relationships with a slightly different eye. I'm like, Oh yeah, that must've been really tough. So after he died, I felt like it was the first time I really focused on her 100 percent cause I had probably been more like 80, 20. you know, just really, really giving all my attention to him.

[00:23:27] And she ended up not being able to live on her own. And so she lived with us, my husband and two children for 17 years, the last 17 years of her life. really long time. And the first many years were really challenging, were really hard. She was not happy to be here. She wasn't grateful. You know, she was just like, what did you do?

[00:23:51] And what am I doing here? You know, she was not pleased about it. But over those 17 years, I came to know her. And it was also through my children. They loved her unabashedly. And they thought she was funny. And I was like, Oh, you know what I mean? And then I started to appreciate her sense of humor through them and through my husband.

[00:24:14] They all loved her. And then we developed a relationship that was really, really precious to me, especially at the end. So I didn't talk about this before, but the title of the book, I Would Meet You Anywhere, it starts out with me meeting my birth mother for the first time, but I really feel like it also applied to my relationship with my parents, my adoptive parents, with my children, with myself, with other people, with readers, with adoptees.

[00:24:42] It really, it fits so many different relationships that I'm super grateful for. 

[00:24:47] Pam Uzzell: That's such a beautiful story about your adoptive mother and her relationship with your husband and children because it does help you to see things through different eyes. And I wanted to go back and comment on you [00:25:00] use the word compliant, which I know you've done lots of reading around adoptive kids and there are the ones who act out and then there are the compliant ones.

[00:25:10] And I was also a compliant. adoptee and it was the same even up until well into my adulthood. If my parents called me rather than me calling them, I always felt like, Oh, am I in trouble? You know? And I never was, but that was my, if they would leave a message saying, could you call us when you get a chance?

[00:25:31] I would think, Oh no, what have I done? 

[00:25:34] Susan Ito: Oh no. I know. And you're always wondering like, is my place okay? Is, am I secure in this family? 

[00:25:41] Pam Uzzell: Yeah, and I'm springing this on you, and it's okay if you say no, but would you be willing to read something from the book? 

[00:25:49] Susan Ito: I was like, what is she going to say? Uh, It's fine.

[00:25:52] I was like, what's going to happen? Oh, no. Springing this on me. 

[00:25:57] Pam Uzzell: See, that's, that's the adoptee, you know, compliance. 

[00:26:00] Susan Ito: I know, just waiting for the big surprise. What would you like me to read? 

[00:26:03] Pam Uzzell: I love the chapter where you're waiting to meet your birth mother. 

[00:26:07] Susan Ito: In the hotel. 

[00:26:08] Pam Uzzell: In the hotel, but I know that you're reading, I have a feeling you're probably reading that a lot.

[00:26:12] Susan Ito: Well I am, just because it's, it's a really nice compact is short, you know, and so it does go well for readings. And it's also like right at the beginning. So that's fine. But I would also be happy to read something else if you have a favorite part or a part that you'd like me to share. 

[00:26:31] Pam Uzzell: Well, I love very much the scene of you and your family watching Go for Broke.

[00:26:37] Susan Ito: Oh, okay. I'm going to summarize the very first part of that chapter is it's about growing up in a small town in northern New Jersey, very white town. But I had kind of a split existence where on the weekends, I would go to Japanese American church and it was kind of the regional church. And then we would also spend time with cousins and some uncles, extended family who lived nearby.

[00:27:03] So my weekends were very, very Asian and my weekdays were very, very not. It felt fitting for me in a way, but we never saw any Asian people on TV. And we knew very much that my dad was in the army in the 442nd. And there was a movie that was made about that called Go for Broke. And it would come on at like, two in the morning and my mother would like scour the tv guide to find out oh Movies and it would show up like once a year at two in the morning.

[00:27:30] So that was a big it was a big deal So i'm gonna just read. 

[00:27:35] One listing that I always kept an eye out for was the 1950s movie Go for Broke, which we all referred to as Daddy's war movie. It turned up once or twice a year usually in the wee hours of the morning. 2 a. m., a late late show. The first time I remember seeing it

[00:27:51] I was only eight. My mother came to wake me with a fake candle with a light bulb flame and a brass holder. The yellow light fell around my bed in a buzzy, buttery circle. She handed me my glasses and I blinked through the sleepy sand in my eyes. It was strange being up in the middle of the night. The house was quiet and hollow.

[00:28:11] Our footsteps echoed in the black tunnel of the hallway between our bedrooms and the living room. My father was luckily not on the road that night. Often he was driving through North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, selling souvenirs to gift shops along the interstate. But this night he was home and he joined us in his blue striped seersucker robe.

[00:28:31] My mother set a bowl of rice crackers on the folding table with tea and hot chocolate in china cups. My father fiddled with the rabbit ear antenna on top of the console and the movie crackled into view. The broadcast glowed in black and white, though we had a big color television. Big script letters filled the screen.

[00:28:49] Van Johnson, the big star! I recognized him because Lucy in I Love Lucy was always trying to get his autograph or talk to him. He was blonde and bland looking. It impressed my father that he was in Go For Broke. Big star, he nodded. Big deal that they got him to sign on. He was a good man to do this, to be in a movie with a bunch of Nihonjins.

[00:29:09] Japanese people. He didn't look like a good man to me. In the opening scene, he portrayed an army officer who had just found out he was going to be in charge of the 442nd regiment made up entirely of Japanese American soldiers. I'm not gonna be stuck with a bunch of japs, he scoffed. I flinched. My parents' mouths, tightened a bit in the flickering light.

[00:29:30] My father patted my leg. It's okay, Sus. They have to have him say that to make it realistic. Some fellas actually said things like that. I thought you said he was a good man. The actor is a good man. He's just playing a prejudiced guy. He patted me again. Just watch, though. He'll change. How many times have you seen this movie, I asked.

[00:29:51] He counted on his fingers. Four, five times. We went to the premiere. That was a big night, rascal. Van Johnson came himself. [00:30:00] The VA sponsored it, they had a big party after. The Shidokai church cooked all kinds of Nihon no Mono, a big cake. Go for Broke on the icing. They let veterans like me, Uncle Yo, Uncle Kiyoshi, all in for free.

[00:30:13] My mother clapped, a short, short noise. Hey, enough you two. Pay attention. 

[00:30:19] Pam Uzzell: I love that scene. It's a great scene to show the dynamics of your family. I love that your dad called you rascal. I know as an adoptee for myself, you can get really caught up in feelings of not belonging and things like that. And so I think these family scenes with your adoptive family, if you had more or less a good upbringing, are so important.

[00:30:45] As sort of an anchor. 

[00:30:47] Susan Ito: Thank you. Thank you so much. It's interesting. I know that there is such a range of adoptee experiences out there. I know that many of them are not positive, are not pleasant or good or loving. And I worried that I was going to get pushback from other adoptees who would be like, it's not so good.

[00:31:10] It's traumatic. It's terrible. I've spoken about this in other talks. It's for me, I mean, many adoptees have had to undergo personal trauma. And for me, it was institutional trauma. It was about not getting my birth records. It was about the agency. It was, it was about much bigger things than my family. But I know that there are many adoptees out there who have to grapple with both, and it's really, really, really hard.

[00:31:39] And I, I feel for them. And, but I was worried about that. I was worried that I was going to be seen as quote unquote, too grateful. 

[00:31:49] Pam Uzzell: Yes, I know. Grateful has become a little bit of a hot button word .

[00:31:54] Susan Ito: For sure. 

[00:31:54] Pam Uzzell: But I didn't interpret it as you being grateful. I, 

[00:31:58] Susan Ito: Oh, interesting. 

[00:31:59] Pam Uzzell: I think when you are adopted, there is trauma for sure.

[00:32:04] But I think as in any type of trauma, there's such a complexity and everybody is an individual and there's a core certain type of trauma that maybe you have, but then the stories are very complex and very individual. And I think you're telling your story. And I think, you know, the reason it doesn't come across as grateful, I think, is how much give and take there was.

[00:32:32] Your family helped you find your birth mother. Your family created their own relationship with your birth mother, which I thought was so generous of them. 

[00:32:43] Susan Ito: Right. 

[00:32:44] Pam Uzzell: You and your adoptive family were, I'm going to use a word I'll probably get pushback on. You were a true family and families are complicated.

[00:32:52] Not all parts are great. But lots of parts are, and that's true for people who are adopted and for people who are not adopted. It's just that adoptees have a different type of trauma and a different layer of challenges. So I, I appreciated that story because I, I also had an overall good adoptive experience.

[00:33:13] And it had lots of challenges, but I have lots of these beautiful memories as well. So when we first got on, you told me some really great news about your book and I'm wondering if you would share it. 

[00:33:27] Susan Ito: Okay. Uh, so I just woke up to this news this morning and I'm pretty stunned and shocked, but I just got word that the book was nominated

[00:33:38] as a finalist, or is a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award, which in Bookland is sort of like the Oscars. I mean, I guess the Pulitzer Prize is the one bigger one, but it's a big deal. And I'm just kind of overwhelmed. Like, I cannot believe it. And I can hear my husband over there being like, I told you so, I told you, because I really had this feeling before it was published that, uh, you know, no one's gonna.

[00:34:08] Who's going to read this book? It's just, it's so whatever. I don't know. I just like really did not have faith that it was going to have much reach. I mean, I thought, okay, maybe my 100 closest friends will read it because they like me or something. And my husband, because he, he's married to me, but I just did not have a sense

[00:34:30] that it would have any larger audience or that people and I've been hearing wonderful things from adopted people and from non adopted people, which is frankly more shocking and more gratifying, not more gratifying, but gratifying in a completely different way. Like, Oh, you don't have to share this exact experience to get something from it.

[00:34:52] Pam Uzzell: I love that you've gotten that feedback because I agree. And I told you that this season is about connection. 

[00:34:58] Susan Ito: Hmm. 

[00:34:59] Pam Uzzell: [00:35:00] And I think the reason people need to tell their own stories and listen to other people's stories is this sense of trying to figure out, well, who am I? 

[00:35:08] Susan Ito: Yes. 

[00:35:09] Pam Uzzell: And wanting to be seen for who they are.

[00:35:11] Susan Ito: And I think that's universal.

[00:35:12] Pam Uzzell: It is universal. And your book does a great job. I'm delighted, but not shocked that it's being received and up for this honor. So congratulations on that. It is so well deserved. I can't even tell you, I read this book in a day and a half because I couldn't stop reading. I couldn't stop reading.

[00:35:31] Susan Ito: Pam, that means so much to me. 

[00:35:33] Pam Uzzell: I'm just so grateful that you're on the show to talk about it more. And where can people find out more about you and this book? 

[00:35:42] Susan Ito: My website is pretty easy. It's thesusanito.com. There's all information about events. I'll be traveling a lot this spring. There'll be a lot of events coming up and hopefully.

[00:35:55] To a place near wherever anybody is. And um, also there's information on how to buy it. 

[00:36:01] Pam Uzzell: but

[00:36:01] You're also going to be on a big panel with other writers who've written books about adoptions. I think it's a BIPOC adoptees writing panel. 

[00:36:10] Susan Ito: Yes. That will be in Portland on March 14th.

[00:36:15] And I'm extremely excited about that. 

[00:36:18] Pam Uzzell: I feel like they have a YouTube channel. 

[00:36:20] Susan Ito: Yes, it's called Constellation Reading Series. Yeah. 

[00:36:24] Pam Uzzell: So even if you're not in a place near where Susan's going to be, you can find her reading there. Well, thank you, Susan, so, so much. Love the book. And I love this conversation.

[00:36:39] Susan Ito: Me too.

[00:36:39] This has been an incredible pleasure and honor. Thank you so much, Pam.

[00:36:46] You're listening to Art Heals All Wounds.

[00:37:13] Susan's book really moved me. The searching for answers that Susan undertook. can feel so scary. And that kind of search is also legally challenging. In many places, adult adoptees still struggle to get access to any kind of records around their births and adoptions. Decades and decades later, It's kind of nuts, isn't it?

[00:37:39] I Would Meet You Anywhere is resonating with so many people. You heard on the podcast that it's a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. Let's keep our fingers crossed for Susan that she takes home that prize. But just even being a finalist for this award, shows the impact of Susan's story about the connections she needed to make to understand her place.

[00:38:03] What role do the arts and creativity play in your life?

[00:38:25] I'd love for you to share that with me. In a voicemail this season, I'm only releasing an interview show every other week. If I get voicemails, I'll release those in the weeks between. When I hear those voicemails, they help me feel connected, so please keep them coming. Just go to my website, our heal all wounds podcast.com, and click on the big button that says,

[00:38:50] Leave Pam a voicemail. And if you feel so inclined, you can also support this podcast by going to my website and clicking on either the buy me a coffee link at the top of the screen or the buy me a coffee widget on the homepage. This podcast is completely independent and a labor of love for me. So any little bit you give helps enormously.

[00:39:14] Thanks for listening. The music you've heard in this podcast is by Ketza. and Lobo Loco. This podcast was edited by Iva Hristova.