Description: In this episode, I sit down with the talented comedian and author Sadia Azmat. We delve into the world of stand-up comedy, exploring how Sadia has used humor to navigate complex themes of identity, culture, and relationships. From her unique perspective as a hijabi comedian, Sadia shares her journey of self-discovery and how she's challenged cultural norms with her humor.
Key Topics:
Connect with Sadia:
Stay in Touch with the Podcast:
LEAVE ME A VOICEMAIL WITH YOUR STORY OF BELONGING!
● Art Heals All Wounds Website
● Art Heals All Wounds Instagram
Description: In this episode, I sit down with the talented comedian and author Sadia Azmat. We delve into the world of stand-up comedy, exploring how Sadia has used humor to navigate complex themes of identity, culture, and relationships. From her unique perspective as a hijabi comedian, Sadia shares her journey of self-discovery and how she's challenged cultural norms with her humor.
Key Topics:
Connect with Sadia:
Stay in Touch with the Podcast:
LEAVE ME A VOICEMAIL WITH YOUR STORY OF BELONGING!
● Art Heals All Wounds Website
● Art Heals All Wounds Instagram
[00:00:00] Pam Uzzell: Do you believe art can change the world? So do I! On this show, we meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell.
Is there something about yourself, something that makes you, you, that others have reacted to in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable or self conscious? That's [00:01:00] happened to me. I grew up in Arkansas and I had a pretty strong accent. I, of course, didn't really realize how strong it was until I went on a trip when I was 17 with a bunch of students from all across the country.
We were going to be exchange students for a year! On the flight, I wound up sitting with a guy who was extremely attractive, in my opinion, and he just kept saying, Oh, your accent is just so cute. The way you talk, it's just so cute. And he kept saying it and saying it. And I started thinking, I really don't want to hear anymore that I'm so cute.
Then he said, I bet you have pretty good grades. Modestly, I said, yeah, pretty good. And he said, what? I bet you're close to a 3.0, maybe a 2.75. I just looked at him. A 3.0 is a B average, [00:02:00] and academics were something I really, really cared about. I took so many honors courses that my average was well above a 4.0. I'm not saying it to brag, but it meant a lot to me. When I told him my actual grade point average, he was shocked. He said, your grade point average is that high? And I said, why are you so surprised by that? And he said, well, you know, just talking to you and all, I just didn't think it would be very high.
I realized that because of my accent, he thought I was stupid. I couldn't believe it. And from that day on, I worked on getting rid of my Southern accent. The entire year I was away, I chipped away at it. And when I came back, it was gone. I just couldn't stand the idea that people would make assumptions about me because of the [00:03:00] way that I talked.
I don't know what kind of life I would have had if I hadn't been so worried about other people's assumptions about me. I also cannot believe that I changed such a fundamental part of who I was either. My guest today is someone who is oh so familiar with people making assumptions about her, but she's not changing because of what other people think.
We're talking about belonging on the season of Art Heals All Wounds. Did you ever experience people making assumptions about you that made you feel like, I don't know, like they weren't seeing you for you? Did you feel like you needed to change, or did you decide it was their problem, not yours? I'd love for you to share that story with me now.
You can go to my website, arthealsallwoundspodcast.com and [00:04:00] leave me a voicemail with your story. I'd love to share it on a future episode. My guest today is comedian, writer, and broadcaster, Sadia Azmat. Sadia Azmat is a British South Asian who chooses to wear a hijab, and she openly talks and writes about sex.
So, what is the big deal with that, you might ask? Well, apparently... It's a very big deal, and Sadia faces a lot of assumptions from both the white community and the South Asian community. But rather than changing, Sadia has leaned into who she is, and as a result has performed and written material that is very funny and also very wise.
Hi, Sadia, thank you so much for being on ArtHeals All Wounds. Can [00:05:00] you start by telling us who you are and what you do?
[00:05:02] Sadia Azmat: Hi Pam, thank you for having me and I just want to say what a cool podcast title. I just want to go binge all of the episodes because I think, yeah, it does heal all wounds, but yeah, I'm a comedian, I'm an author, I'm very horny all the time, so yeah, that's so funny.
[00:05:19] Pam Uzzell: Well, You know, that just leads us right into your book, which is called Sex Bomb. And I am really, really in love with this title because as in many things in your book, it's a double entendre between who you think of when you say, Ooh, she's a sex bomb. But then that word bomb, you really play on that in this book of, you know, who are you You're talking about both things.
So can you set up this book, what it's about?
[00:05:54] Sadia Azmat: Sure. Thank you. I love the title. So I'm glad that you started with that. And it definitely [00:06:00] has so many meanings, exactly as you said, like, could a Muslim woman be a sex bomb? Because for so long we've been portrayed very vanilla. And also the fact that sometimes it feels like a bomb of a topic in my community anyway, in terms of it's.
We don't talk about it enough, I don't think. And so it feels like sex can be a bomb, or it certainly feels weaponized, certainly, as well. In terms of... feeling like I had autonomy over sex in my life or access to sex. Um, and then, yeah, it's a funny title where like, even as a comedian, you know, sometimes my sex jokes, you know, will they bomb or are they good?
And so it definitely has a lot of meanings for me and I wanted to really call it a bold title because my community hasn't talked about it, openly or engaged with this very much at all. I really wanted it to be something that we couldn't shy away from. So I'm hoping that it will just help conversations [00:07:00] happen.
[00:07:01] Pam Uzzell: It's so interesting. I have this list of questions, but when you say things, I just, I'm gonna go right out of order of these questions. Don't
[00:07:09] Sadia Azmat: speak to, let's just talk. Yeah, yeah. I'm for that.
[00:07:11] Pam Uzzell: Well,because , it is a delicate topic, if you will, but you just leaned into it and did the boldest thing possible, which most of us don't have the courage to do or the talent and took up being a standup comic.
I read about the process of how you became a stand-up comic, but really I want to hear it now, like this journey for that happening.
[00:07:38] Sadia Azmat: Absolutely. So I love comedy so much. In fact, like it's American comedians that have really inspired me because I think like British comedy is so reserved and I'm not a very reserved person and nor do I think stand up is, is very reserved in, in an art form.
And so not to say that there isn't a place for that style, but it didn't speak to me. [00:08:00] And so I was very lucky as a child, it was Paramount channel then not comedy central. And I would get to watch all of these wonderful half hour specials, like HBO specials, all of these things with what everybody hit.
Patrice O'Neill, Chris Rock, Chappelle, Pryor, all of these lovely people and just really putting the world straight. And I, and it was very powerful because I didn't see that in any other area of my life, but yet it resonated with me, even though I may not have had the same experience as them. It just spoke to me, like it just connected with me and it just, it was really powerful.
So I've always loved writing and that's been my kind of thing. Like I've always been able to write a lot and I guess you could say have a lot to say for myself as well. And so. I... I didn't really know that I could be a stand up. I know that sounds weird, but you see somebody on a box in a TV and you accept that that's what they do.
But it's not something we're taught at school. And also I'm a little bit anxious about public speaking. So that's not something I consider for [00:09:00] myself. Yet I'm writing jokes unintentionally. It's just like I'm writing standup material. That's, that's what's coming out of me when I'm writing. It's not poetry, it's not essays, it's not anything.
It's just standup material. It's like observational humor that I feel like I've been inspired from the standups that I've watched growing up and I'm in a call center. And I'm having my one to one monthly appraisal. I don't know if you guys have that in America. So we have these boring checks every month to see how we're going and performance checkups and stuff like that.
So my manager's really cool. And he asked me, you know, what do you want to do? Like after this kind of role in the call center, like where do you see yourself going in this organization? Or what are your goals, aspirations? And I tell him, look, I'd like to be a writer. So, he's like, I can't help you with that, but we do have a magazine in, in the company.
I can connect you with the editor. And it just so happens that there's a comedian on the cover. And basically the editor is like, I can't guarantee she'll speak to you, but you know, you could [00:10:00] reach out to this comedian. This is her email. And then she does accept my contact or she does basically communicate with me.
She gives me the time of day. And then we meet in a cafe and then we go through some of my material and I'm just thinking in the back of my head that all comedians know each other and I'm thinking I can't ask her but I really just want to ask her if she knows Chris Rock and if we can kind of like connect, but I didn't ask her that so I got something I didn't bargain for because obviously I was trying to be a writer but she was very open she was like in the UK and It's really difficult to become a writer.
And so what you can do is be a comedian because it's a good way of testing out your writing skills and seeing how, you know, getting better and better. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't think I can do that. And she was like, well, you know, you can try it. And then if you don't like, you never have to see the people in the room again.
So it didn't feel like risky. It felt doable. Although I guess there's also a lot of not knowing what you're getting yourself [00:11:00] into. So I said, yes. And she booked me a gig in two weeks time, because she was like, it's good to have a deadline. You don't want to wait too long for the gig because then the anticipation it will build up.
So yeah, two weeks later there I was standing on a stage in front of like 70 people and I made them laugh. It actually went well. And um, so yeah, I was really lucky.
[00:11:18] Pam Uzzell: I've watched some of your clips of stand up online and it is really interesting because your jokes are really very bold.
[00:11:26] Sadia Azmat: Oh, thank you.
[00:11:27] Pam Uzzell: They will sometimes do a shot of the audience and there's a look on people's faces like Can I laugh at that?
Is that okay for me to laugh at? Because you could tell that they thought it was funny, but it's like, is that rude if I laugh?
[00:11:41] Sadia Azmat: I'm so glad you picked up on that, Pam. And I think it's a bit of a bugbear. Like, I do think that comedy does come attached with saying sometimes the unthinkable, but I think the fact that I'm also like from a background that I'm, I'm from, it kind of heightens that even more.
Yeah, it's very [00:12:00] divisive. And, you know, I just think it's important to when it comes to art is to, to do the art that you want to do. I'm not into like, I guess there's a version of an act that I could do that would be way more mainstream or popular, but it just doesn't appeal to me. Like, I think it's a poor use of stand up.
And so I do like to kind of those bitey punchy topics, those really appeal to me because also I'm punching up some saying things that people are already thinking, but like you said, they just don't know, is this okay to laugh? But sometimes, like, I think where comedy is really enjoyable is where it is slightly inappropriate.
[00:12:35] Pam Uzzell: Yes, for sure. So let's do go back to your book though, because This book talks about a lot of things that are not so funny, too. I want to go back. You know, people can't see you, although they will see your lovely photo on the cover art for this podcast, but you decided at a certain point to wear a hijab, [00:13:00] even though no one in your family did.
And in a certain way, that really has created so many reactions to that. And so many assumptions. Which is why your comedy works, first of all, because you're going against those assumptions. The reaction you got from a lot of people that I really wanted to ask you about, because you were looking to date.
You were not looking for an arranged marriage, but you were looking to date, you were looking for sex, and you were looking for love. And a lot of people just said to you, well, you know, your family doesn't wear a hijab, just take it off.
Sadia Azmat: Mm hmm.
Pam Uzzell: And I really wanted to ask you about that, like. First of all, if your family doesn't wear it, why did you make this choice?
And second of all, what would you like for those people saying that to understand about that choice?
[00:13:57] Sadia Azmat: It's, it's a, yeah, I love that you're bringing [00:14:00] this up. Um, it's so rich and unspoken about. So it's, it's lovely to be able to have a chance to talk about it. I wore it because when I was a kid, I went to like a Saturday school, a religious Saturday school, and we would wear it.
During that time or just on a Saturday afternoon and yeah, as a kid, I was wearing it, but then I always remembered like taking it off after that Saturday school. I was unsure why I did that as a kid. I know I didn't need to wear it anywhere else, but then I think I was like annoyed with myself for not committing to it.
And it wasn't really deeper than that, to be honest with you, like I know that my mum wore it for a very brief period and then removed it when she was younger, and I don't think that I would have wanted my parents to decide for me, and I wore it in a time where... Like, it wasn't very common. So it wasn't a big deal, because like, very few people were wearing it, and it wasn't like anybody was that curious about it.
It was just your own kind of thing. And then so [00:15:00] much terrorism happened, like so much terrorism happened. And then I guess unfortunately, it became attached with, with certain views or kind of confusion, and people didn't understand it. And in Britain, like, people are super like, I don't know if repressed is the fair word, because I hate it when people call me repressed.
But like, what I mean is that in the desire to be very politically correct, they don't want to ask questions that might either kind of make them seem like they're a bit racist, to be honest with you. And I love having conversations. So I'd rather just have a conversation and move on. But like, it's very difficult when you're in like a stalemate situation where you can't talk about the thing that they really don't understand or need to understand or can't understand, you know what I mean?
Like, or they're really like perplexed by, and so look, I, I just wore it like. Because for me, it was like embracing the fact that I'm like owning this and I'm not afraid I'm not trying to take it off when I'm outside of Saturday [00:16:00] school. And in fact, to be honest, like I say in the book, like it wasn't, it just wasn't a big deal to me, which I know is really hard to, it's actually the thing that you probably least expect because so many hijabis kind of wear it with such pride.
And it does feel like it's quite central to their, maybe at least outer appearance, but like, I really just didn't really give it much thought either way. And then it became embroiled with other people's expectations of it, or like you said, assumptions of it. And then that was difficult because I was like, this is my little thing.
Like I go sometimes to the, to the shops and buy different colors. And it, it belonged to me, but there was being like hijacked by other people or these fears that people had that we were trying to kind of convert everybody to Islam, which is like not even what we are allowed to do in our faith is not, we're not meant to force people to do anything, but there was so much unspoken turmoil or confusion.
And I just felt like it shouldn't fall on the hijab [00:17:00] or it shouldn't even fall on me. And in terms of the sex stuff, like you said, it definitely felt like I wasn't allowed to entertain that, not just from my own community, but just from the wider community. It felt a little bit, I don't know if patronizing is the right word, but it felt like that wasn't an area that I could participate in or be seen as an equal in, or just
be convincing in, in any way. Like it felt like a joke. And then that's what at some point grew into my act in that I'm a female and I can't get dick. Like that's hilarious because women are fighting dick all the time. Like they don't, there's so much dick. It's on offer, like it's so easy to get dick. And so it just became like my act because it's like, it's just, like you said, it's just so funny and you can't make this up.
Like it is my experience is that how can you not be able to get dick? It's the funniest thing in the world. I shouldn't want it this badly. I shouldn't need it. I shouldn't be, there shouldn't be a [00:18:00] dick shortage is my point.
[00:18:03] Pam Uzzell: That is so funny. But, you know, the thing about comedy is underneath everything that's funny.
There is something else, and yeah, I'm sorry, you totally wrecked my train of thought by telling that joke.
[00:18:18] Sadia Azmat:. I have to bring the jokes in, because you're right, the book does talk about some serious topics, but I always like to, there's light and shade, right? Like you can't have one without the other.
[00:18:30] Pam Uzzell: Right.
Well, so one thing about your book, though, is that I do... Again, I want to hear it in conversation. You had an example at home that really, really made you not want an arranged marriage, maybe for a while, not marriage at all. That's true. You also saw examples that made you very wary of love, of [00:19:00] being in love.
But this is the part that I think is really so universal in your book. Those patterns and things that we grow up with in our homes really influence our behavior in ways that we're not even aware of until you do something like write a book. And I'm just so curious, what was going on for you that you just thought, Nope, no arranged marriage for me.
And love is a little bit scary, but I do want to be sexually active. This is the great richness of your story.
[00:19:39] Sadia Azmat: That's really, really kind. I mean, I need to pay you for your kind word. It means a lot to me and it's very deep and I can tell that you've kind of really engaged with some of my experiences and what I was trying to convey, which means a lot.
So the thing is, right, is that obviously I'm Indian, but I was born and grew up in London, and so [00:20:00] it was really difficult to feel Indian in a way. And then to feel like there was just so much going on. I guess you have to pick one and kind of like, you can be both, but like one kind of has to, you gravitate towards something more.
Right. And I guess like, I liked English a lot as a budding writer, or I just was, there was so much stimulus, like, you know, we watched so much American shows and British shows, and so that was the, the thing that I was. More exposed to, and I preferred it. And so I didn't see any arranged marriages on there.
And in fact, my mom didn't have an arranged marriage. She proposed to my dad. So it was really strange because I would always get people. Thinking that I had this very weird upbringing of my parents being like a forced marriage or arranged marriage. And that wasn't the case. So it was like, not only was I trying to discover myself, but I was also trying to undo what other people thought of me at the same time.
And so I knew that [00:21:00] like, I, I didn't want other people to make decisions of that nature for me to live with, like if I was going to do something, I wanted to be the one responsible and live with it because, you know, it would be so hard if like your parents set you up with somebody and that just didn't work out and like you'd hate them for it or resent them at least.
I think what I did was try to play it safe, which is follow the educational route as an Asian. And I did that for a long time. And, and there wasn't much, I guess, social life going on where I would kind of incidentally bump into possible guys really. So I kept my head in the books as long as I could. I wasn't drawn to Bollywood and stuff like that.
So I just knew that I wasn't going to have that typical Indian kind of wedding. And I just wanted, I wanted love and that's not why I associated with arranged marriage. Although I know now that you can have obviously love and arranged marriages, but they, they don't have to be, um, independent of one another.
But I assumed that arranged marriage was very fixed and [00:22:00] very kind of rules based and very, rigid, um, and I wanted something that was more agreeable or livable or, or worth it. And so going to your point that, yeah, I mean, I did rule out marriage at some point in, in entirety because I guess. I didn't know that somebody would marry me or that, you know, it could work cause there's like so much marriages that don't seem to end up working as well.
And so it's about finding that person that is your other half that still hasn't happened. Listeners. I'm very single. And yeah, but anyway, and also it was really difficult, but you're very good point about. Things affecting us that we can't even, that we wouldn't even have known until they happen or reflecting afterwards.
My parents didn't have a very functional relationship. My mom, um, has some mental health issues and my father unfortunately, um, decided to take a second wife. And, um, I write about that in the book. And I, I think it did definitely [00:23:00] make me, uh, scared of like relationships in the fact that, you know, a guy could really
cheat on you or let you down. It's kind of complex. And I think it just makes it difficult to let go and trust. Not that I can't trust a guy, but I think in a way that isn't self destructive or all or nothing type of thing. Cause sometimes it's easy to want to be very, very like all or nothing, but like you've got to do it in stages and slowly and people have to earn your respect because you could give it to them all over, like overnight, for example, but then if it's too easy, will they value it?
[00:23:36] Pam Uzzell: Right. But you're bringing up so many rich things about relationships and sex, and you're much younger than I am, but I grew up in a place and a time where premarital sex was very much frowned upon and of course people around me were doing it all the time, but [00:24:00] I really absorbed it in a certain way. And it does make it really, really hard when you become an adult and you realize, well, I'm not going to get married at 18.
So I am a sexual being, so I'm going to have sex, but you don't have a model to follow What is, I don't like to use the word normal, but what is, what's your typical person's feelings? Even options,
[00:24:29] Sadia Azmat: even options, Pam, right? Even like, even if you don't have one model, you don't have several models, you just have the model, which like18 is just not going to happen for many, many people, unless you meet your high school sweetheart or something like that. But I like that you said that because to be honest, that's, that's my experience. Even though I feel like I, it's important to me to put things down on paper, but like it, there is a pressure on women to kind of settle or, and it's still to an extent frowned on these days, I think.
But I think it's [00:25:00] like where, it's one thing to frown on it, but if women, if people are doing it, and it's not just women, if people are doing it and then we're not able to talk about it, then the concern is that if, if the woman needs to talk about it to somebody and there's so much shame attached to it, then how would she possibly go and find help or leave the guy if he's trash, or, you know, get out of that situation.
You know, relationships can be very, I don't know, difficult, pressurized. They can be great things, obviously, but if things are not going so well, you can feel in a vulnerable place. But if you're vulnerable and you're not able to even tell anybody about the situation, it can leave you on the kind of, wrong end of things.
And so that was my thing is that like, I don't see it as being brave. I just think I see it as being overdue because whatever people think of it, like people do make mistakes as well, right? Well, I'm not trying to say premarital sex necessarily is a mistake, although it might be for some people in some situations, but I just wanted to share so that…
Also, I guess it has the side effect of [00:26:00] humanizing people like me who haven't been represented or portrayed as round 3D people. We've just been portrayed as very conservative or very one-sided. In fact, we don't, we hardly ever get like a platform or a voice. So I was so thrilled to be able to fashion a book that was very honest and that didn't have much kind of
external expectations, but external influence on how, how it should look. I got to have a lot of creative freedom in terms of the story,
[00:26:29] Pam Uzzell: Right, you're going against Western expectations by wearing the hijab and then you're going against. Maybe. See, this is an assumption on my part, like your culture of your culture that you should be getting married or you should not be talking about
[00:26:47] Sadia Azmat: it's super isolating because you're right.
Like you have very few people like, I mean. I would definitely say women have been really supportive from all communities. [00:27:00] But yeah, it's like, it's difficult because I feel like I'm like the first person putting it out there. And so there wasn't a lot of understanding on both sides, because I guess from the non Muslim community, they're like, Oh, this isn't really about or for us.
And then the Muslim community is, this isn't, you know, appropriate. So I don't, it's like really. Um, yeah, it's, it's isolating at the same time, as I said, like I, I speak to a Jewish woman who's like 46 at a bookshop event. And she said that, you know, I've only recently started to enjoy sex. So your book really is important to me and I'm glad you're talking about these things.
So I mean, it was helpful to know that it's a universal experience for sure, whether that's even male or female. And I think you're right. I think because there isn't a protocol. We don't get good sex education and we don't know necessarily. Yeah, I think we have to figure a lot out as we go along with a few kind of weird movies or good movies, or like he said, she said, like we're figuring a lot of this very important stuff about our lives, um, on the fly [00:28:00] and so, um, hopefully we'll help people feel like.
Um, you know, this is definitely not how to do it, but no, um, people feel less alone if they've been confused along the way or felt alone.
[00:28:11] Pam Uzzell: Yeah, I mean, and when you say this is not necessarily how to do it, I think though. When you take the whole package of your work, the fact that you're open about doing this in routine and you've written this book, that it is exactly how to do it because we can't go back and change how we were brought up.
We can't go back and change how we were educated as young people. So how do you do it moving forward? And I think this is the way to do it. And I think. There's always gotta be the trailblazer and I'm just, I am just so curious about all the young women who are reading this saying, Oh, thank God, I'm not the only person who thinks this way, who feels this way, who's had some of these experiences.
So I think it is exactly the way to do it because we can't go back and [00:29:00] change our upbringing and what we learned.
[00:29:02] Sadia Azmat: I think that's a good point. And I didn't think of it like that. I mean, I think that's quite forgiving and sometimes we can be really hard on ourselves. So it's nice to hear that kind of analysis.
I think, like you said, when you write your story, like you learn a lot when you're reflecting back on the things that you may not have reflected on so closely at the time. And I think definitely what I learned from the process of writing the book was about my relationship with myself and often the things I did in a relationship I had.
Which I talk about my ex boyfriend, I think sometimes it wasn't even so much about loving him or hating him or whatever. I think it was just about the relationship that I had with myself that I needed to work on. And so I've really learned that bit. You hear a lot when you're young, right? About you have to love yourself before somebody else can love you.
And it sounds beautiful. It sounds like something you'd put on a t shirt, but I didn't really get it. Like I was kind of taking it for granted because well, of course I love myself. But, you know, there's way more involved [00:30:00] in that then I would have realized at that age and then I think looking back on the things that I could have done better or the things that I didn't do or the ways that I let him treat me, my ex, that I realized that I just put up with a lot and like, yeah, I don't think that you need to suffer so, so badly or like a relationship shouldn't be suffering.
[00:30:21] Pam Uzzell: Yeah. And what I love about what you're saying and about your book is that loving yourself. It means having a lot of forgiveness for ourselves over the mistakes that we made or things that we wish we had done differently. But that's a huge part of loving ourselves is being able to say, yeah, I did that, but probably not going to do it again, or I have some awareness around it.
I did have a question about this process of writing this book.
Sadia Azmat: Sure. Please do.
Pam Uzzell: Um, just to follow up what you're talking about, the way that it can change your perspective on certain [00:31:00] things, including yourself, did it change your perspective at all on sex and love? Or how did that play out from? When you first, as a very young woman, were thinking, You know, with your ideas about sex and love then.
Sadia Azmat: We [00:31:15] changed so much and I think, you know, when we're young, like we have so much hormones flying around. There isn't any way to put it other than that, right? I was super romantic, like I romanticized the whole pursuit of love and, and being hopefully kind of whatever, pursued, I don't know. So there's a lot of idealism that goes into it and then life happens and then realism sets in and I think in terms of, well, I just want to answer this before we go into the question.
You can't please anybody these days because some people have said there's no sex in the book and some people have said there's too much sex in the book. So I'm like. I don't know. So I just, I'm glad that I just told a story, but like, it's funny, different people have read into it. I think some people took Sex Bomb [00:32:00] as a hope that it might be a very loaded book about that.
It'll be interesting to see what everybody else makes of it. In terms of what has changed about it all, I think I'm very much at peace with the situation. So I'm very single right now, but I think. I think I stayed in the relationship only for sex and I don't think that was very healthy or it just didn't meet my needs.
I basically thought love and sex was the same thing and they're very different things. So I've learned that there is a separation between love and sex. And you need to know who you are, what you want and what it is that you're actually getting and are they in parallel? Are they synchronous? Are they the same things?
Because there's something in your head and the reality is very different. And so I was hoping that he loved me, but he didn't. And you know. It is what it is.
[00:32:50] Pam Uzzell: Well it's complicated. I mean, I thought that that was such a relatable thing, conflating love and sex.
[00:32:56] Sadia Azmat: Oh, that's nice to hear, because I thought it was the only one.
I thought I was very [00:33:00] stupid.
[00:33:02] Pam Uzzell: I, I think you are very much not the only one and I, I do think it goes back to not having a healthy model and not having the space to talk about it.
[00:33:14] Sadia Azmat: Well, you know what? Also, if you don't see any sex, right, growing up, in, in like, not that I wanted to see my parents having sex, by the way, I just mean that if you, if there's no mention of it or anything like that, or it's really not there, but then they're together, then I guess it's like something that I guess you could kind of mistake, right?
I don't know, but also I was very cautious of bringing it up anyway because I think that was my fear was that like any interest or kind of curiosity I show in the subject would mean that, oh, you know, she's ready and I wouldn't even know what I was getting ready for. So. I definitely didn't entertain it or try to figure it out, but then you want to be normal.
Like you said earlier, like we don't like using that word, but for want of a better word, we [00:34:00] want to be like everybody else who seems to be finding a partner or settling down at some point. Yeah, I, I think I've made my peace with it in that you do have to set certain expectations and You know, there's so much romance around just we met and our eyes met and he was the one.
Another thing is that I was really emotional. And I know for me that I don't operate the best when I'm emotional. Like it really makes you not so cerebral. I'm better when I'm like cool headed and I can then make decisions. And I think as soon as you get your emotions, and emotions can be so powerful and so like influential.
Um, so perspective is really good. And I think, again, I think that's one of the lessons I would take away from everything is that you're allowed to have a feeling, you can accept that feeling, but you also can use your head as well because you can't just use your heart like the whole time.
[00:34:55] Pam Uzzell: Yeah, that's a
very tricky balance to strike though.I [00:35:00] do think though, you made a point earlier is that, you know, you mature.
[00:35:06] Sadia Azmat: Mm hmm. Yes.
[00:35:07] Pam Uzzell: And, I think that in many ways, you're able to get a little bit of perspective on your own emotions.
[00:35:14] Sadia Azmat: Yeah, and I think sometimes you, you realize some of the cliches are true, and then you hate yourself for liking them because you just didn't want to accept it.
But you know when they say, you want someone who's your friend, or someone who's funny, or it's the small things that count. All of those cliches that we heard growing up, they seem to kind of crystallize, and then you realize what's important. And certainly from the lessons or where it didn't go so well, you've got a great model for how not to do it or what bad looks like so that you, you, if that ever appears again, you can spot it and you can remove it from your kind of eye line basically, or you can stay well away from it.
So, yeah, I mean, I guess that's what you were saying earlier about forgiveness is that it's. a process and if you make mistakes, it's an opportunity to [00:36:00] learn from them. And I think it's just, it's way more detrimental to stay in a bad relationship just because you're scared of being lonely. And I think, I think for me, to an extent, that was my motivation as well.
And I was like, Oh, do I want to do this all over again with somebody else? At least like, you know, better the devil, you know, you kind of tell yourself all these. Things but then fundamentally if you're still unhappy like continuously and the person who you're with who's meant to care doesn't then that's your answer and I think I think maybe the first time the first love is like probably really hard and then everything else probably won't hurt as bad
[00:36:37] Pam Uzzell: possibly, but I do think you have a point about you take it you you realize that okay.
So how, how do I say this? I, I feel like I'm doing my own true confessions here, but one thing that I really related to as well is somehow being programmed to be attracted to [00:37:00] those people who are not available.
[00:37:02] Sadia Azmat: Yeah. The bad boy basically, right?
[00:37:04] Pam Uzzell: The bad boy, emotionally aloof. And I do think it's a question of, of really working it through.
And coming up with a new picture of that, that is, that is actually your, your kryptonite in a way, and that you're never going to be able to make that work for whatever reason that we get programmed into thinking that that's a suitable mate.
[00:37:36] Sadia Azmat: Yeah, I think when you are young, well, when I was young, younger, I had a lot of energy and so the things that possibly didn't work about him, I was like, you know, oh, I can work around them, I can change them.
And then like with age, I'm like, I, I have so much going on. I do not have the time to educate anybody, and it's really funny how opposites [00:38:00] can kind of be really connected. Cause the things that once I love, it makes me repulsed, right? It repulsed me now. It makes me sick. Like the idea of somebody being so emotionally detached.
Oh God. Like, it's like, I'm not doing any of the work for you. Like someone with a good heart is way more important. And I don't think that we're told that a lot in society. So I think it's important to share here that, you know, yes, somebody's looks can be something, but you know, the insides mean so much.
Like. their values, their heart, their humor, their kindness, and all of those things, right?
[00:38:34] Pam Uzzell: Right, right. Who was the audience that you had in mind when you were writing this?
[00:38:41] Sadia Azmat: As a person who likes money, initially it was like anybody who would pay to read it. Who I really had in mind was young women, Asian women, or people from backgrounds where I guess they're not represented.
So ethnic women, but also women just in general, because we've all [00:39:00] had a bit of a rough ride and we continually tend to do because of the harsh ways that we're judged. And so, yeah, it was definitely slanted towards women, but I was definitely hoping South Asian women would be drawn to it on the fact that we've not had representation adequately. And so much of our identity has been misinterpreted or stolen from us. And so I just wanted South Asian women to feel seen and to feel represented. Not that I want to be a representative. That's the funny thing, but just so that some of their experiences that they could relate to were captured authentically and not for some sort of agenda.
I wanted them to have a story that was very open and messy and rough around the edges and honest because it's so different from the stories that they're told about themselves by people who don't even look like them.
[00:39:52] Pam Uzzell: That's such a great point.
Well, you're such a delight to talk to. I could go on and on.
If we were sitting [00:40:00] around a table with coffee. I would love for this conversation to go on for hours, but I do know it's very late there. But before we leave, can you tell people where they can find out more about your book, where they can buy your book, and where they can just find out more about you, because your comedy is very funny.
[00:40:18] Sadia Azmat:
Oh, thank you so much. You're so kind. And I've really enjoyed being on Art Heals All Wounds. It's such a funny title. It will never stop making me laugh. So you can find me on Instagram. I'm at Sadia underscore Azmats. And I have a website, which is www.sadiaazmat.com. And there's a free guide. You can sign up to on my mailing list, which is 10 things you've always wanted to ask about the hijab, but were too afraid to ask.
And I'm really excited that my book is coming out in America because I love America so much. And so you can buy it anywhere. You can get your independent bookshop to order it or you can get it from Amazon. It's also, you can download the listenable version [00:41:00] on Audible. You can definitely get it anywhere you get your books.
[00:41:04] Pam Uzzell: I'm so glad that you came on the show and I am so excited for you about your book and I'm sure it will sell very well because it's a really great story.
[00:41:14] Sadia Azmat: Oh, thank you so much.
[00:41:17] Pam Uzzell: You're listening to Art Heals All Wounds.
This was such a great conversation with Saria Azmat. She says she's single right now, but I don't know. I'd take dating advice from her anytime. [00:42:00] It's such an inspiration that she's speaking openly about her sexual desires. I think a lot of people are going to feel seen by Sadia's work. If you want to learn more about her, You can go to sadiaazmat.com. I'll put links for her contact info in the show notes. Don't forget to leave me a voicemail with your stories about belonging so that I can share them on a future episode. Just go to arthealsallwoundspodcast.com. While you're there, if you want to support the podcast, just click on “buy me a coffee.”
Any support you give really helps me keep the podcast going. And as always, thanks for listening. The music you've heard in this podcast is by Ketsa and Lobo Loco. As always, this show was recorded using Squadcast.FM. Art Heals All Wounds comes to you from Oakland, California on unceded [00:43:00] territory of the Chochenyo Ohlone people.