Pam Uzzell: [00:00:00] Do you believe art can change the world? So do I! On this show, we meet artists whose work is doing just that. Welcome to Art Heals All Wounds. I'm your host, Pam Uzzell.
This past May, my partner and I did something very special. We went on vacation to the island of Maui. We did everything tourists do there. Drove the 620 curves and [00:01:00] 59 bridges to Hana, hiked up the Pipiwai Trail, rented snorkel gear and saw amazing sea turtles, ate at food trucks, and visited Lahaina.
We walked up and down Front Street, past the old wooden structures, and spent some time under the 150 year old banyan tree. This tree is indescribable, so I won't even try. But if you've visited, you know what I'm talking about. We kept saying to each other, wow, there are visitors from all over the world here.
It was kind of amazing that people from all over the globe traveled there to spend some time in this paradise. When I saw the news about the deadly fire that destroyed the town of Lahaina this past August, I know that I joined millions of other people in disbelief and grief. How could this happen? I just keep thinking about the lives lost and the people who are [00:02:00] displaced and the destruction of this magical place that was so historically and culturally significant.
This fire has attached itself to our memories about it forever, and we're watching it happen all the time around the world. This intro has been hard to write because I'm not trying to say that my feelings about the burning of Lahaina are comparable in any way to the experience of the people that called Lahaina home.
But seeing the climate related destruction of a place that was significant to so many people around the world is yet another clear and loud wake up call. And it opens the door to thinking about the loss and destruction of so many places that for the people affected and displaced is just as hard.
Thank you for listening to Art Heals All Wounds in this episode of our special season on belonging. Today we're talking about places. the [00:03:00] neighborhoods, the natural spaces that made us who we are and how to process grief when we lose them. It's a specific kind of grief, and I think it calls for a certain type of storytelling.
Did you have a special place, a place that made you feel like you truly belonged? I'd love to hear about it. Now you can go to my website, arthealsallwoundspodcast. com and leave me a voicemail. Help me get enough voicemails to create episodes sharing your story. On this episode, I'm talking with filmmaker dream hampton.
Dream has been behind a lot of very large projects, including executive producing Surviving R. Kelly that aired in 2019. More recently, she directed a film called Freshwater. In this film, we hear dream's voice as she reflects on her visits to Bell Isle as a child, an incredible natural oasis [00:04:00] in the Detroit River.
What we see in the film are the effects of water flooding homes and other developments when it has no place else to go. This past summer in the Northern Hemisphere felt like one climate catastrophe after another, from suffocating heat to fire and floods. The film Freshwater provides a moment of quiet reflection on the emotional cost of displacement due to natural disasters.
My conversation with dream includes thoughts around migration and climate refugees. Why aren't we doing a better job of responding to those who have left homes that have become uninhabitable due to climate catastrophe? We also talk about ways that urban planning and surveillance have contributed to why our places are so poorly equipped to withstand the many challenges we're facing, whether it's fire
or too much water. Through her story of loss [00:05:00] dream invites us all to reflect with her on how we might respond to this moment when, as she so aptly puts it, nature is talking to us. As storytellers are we listening? How will we shape our stories to meet this moment?
Pam Uzzell: Hi dream.
Thank you so much for being on Art Heals All Wounds. Can you start by telling us who you are and what you do?
dream hampton: Sure. My name is dream hampton. I am a Black woman, filmmaker, and writer from Detroit.
Pam Uzzell: I just saw a beautiful film that you made called Freshwater.
And I'm wondering if you'll tell us a little bit about this film for people who haven't seen it yet.
dream hampton: Thank you for watching it. It's a short film. It's a nine minute film and I made it during the pandemic when. our lives had become smaller and more still, and [00:06:00] we were looking for ways to connect with one another safely, and also to connect with nature.
And I was healing, you know, um, given the name of your podcast, I was healing from... The art that I had just made, meaning that I had just done a deep dive into really hard subjects in a pretty straightforward, didactic, activist way on three projects that were pretty long. Two were a docuseries, both of them six parts.
One of them had a lot of eyes on them, and that was Surviving R. Kelly. The other one was called Finding Justice. It had hardly any eyes on it, but I was super proud of it, and it was also a hard lift. I did it for BET. And then a film that we'd shot inside of, a Indiana men's prison for HBO. So I'd done these three projects in 2018 that came out in 2019 and beyond like the subject matter, there was also [00:07:00] this, and it sounds like a huge privilege to talk about.
having to heal from dealing with studios. You get like the budgets and you get the things that you don't have as an independent filmmaker, which I mostly am. But then you have to get all the stuff that comes with dealing, say with Surviving R. Kelly, it's, it was put out by Lifetime, which is owned by A& E, which is a publicly traded company.
And you get all kinds of notes. There's legal, and there's, there are all the things that are anti creativity that need to be fixed, quite frankly, inside of the business of making documentaries. And people are working to address those things, but what it leaves you feeling is a little spent afterwards.
You know, not as spent as working a shift at a grocery store at the height of COVID, but its own kind of spent, right? And my friend, Invincible, I talked to them about this project, their pronouns are they and them. I [00:08:00] talked to them about wanting to do something, looking at memory, looking at flooded basements, basements being a metaphor for foundation.
Looking at my disappearing Black city, is what I would say. I live in Detroit, I'm from Detroit, and it's experiencing demographic shifts, which is common in all places, change, but for so long, Detroit was frozen. And it's kind of, um, post insurrection, what people call the riots, history. That's a long way of saying, that, you know, we approached this project with healing in mind and Freshwater is about, like I said, flooded basements, flooded Midwestern basements, because I was also thinking about the way we talk about flooding as a coastal issue.
And then Ill, Invincible's other name, came up with this approach that involved a non deadline and that was really important. We [00:09:00] shot all four seasons. Our crew was never more than four people, three people.
Pam Uzzell: What caught my attention really is you talking about this issue of flooding that is not just a coastal issue.
We do talk about, you know, rising sea levels and disappearing shorelines, but for people who have not seen this film, even being a more specific, I can describe it, but I'd rather you describe it a little bit what you're showing and what are the types of things that you're talking about in this film?
dream hampton: Yeah, well, I'd love
to hear your description of it. What did you take from it or see
in it?
Pam Uzzell: Well, the first time I saw it I felt like I was entering into some type of reverie. The opening images are of photographs and other treasures that we keep, memorabilia... underwater, which [00:10:00] is already putting you in a space that you're not expecting to be in.
And And You start talking about the loss of all of these things that we hold on to as symbols of our memory or as holders of our memory, the photographs, the old things that we keep in our basements and all the time we're hearing water, we're seeing water and You meditate a lot on the nature of water, the nature of flooding, erasure.
It's a very, very quiet film. It feels like you're in, you're in a meditative state, and then at a certain point you awaken to the fact like, no, this is reality.
When we think of climate change and its effect on us as communities and individuals. So I found it very powerful.
dream hampton: well, it was my way in this moment, and I [00:11:00] wasn't trying to take on something as big as climate change, but the small things become the big things, right?
And thank you for those reflections, because... I don't know what I intended for it to sound like. I know that when we got Sterling Toles music, the score, he'd gone around the state before I even started my project, recording sounds in Michigan. Maybe not as much as Minneapolis, but we've got a ton of lakes.
And he went around the state recording all these natural sounds, and Sterling is just my genius friend, artist, musician, amazing human. And even my narration is a conversation with Sterling. Another thing that Ill came up with was that Sterling and I would talk about growing up in Detroit. He's also a Detroit native.
And we would use my part of that conversation. So if I sound calm or just even [00:12:00] safe or meditative, it's because I'm talking to someone who's just like one of the most loving people on the planet. So that was kind of the BTS on that, the behind the scenes on the audio. I knew I wanted it to be spare. I wanted to focus on the images.
Again, I'd done Surviving R. Kelly, we had more than 50 talking heads in it, right? So there are a few people in this, but... There's this luxury that one of my favorite filmmakers, Terrence Malick, creates for himself and it's like he'll have some big giant star on the set, Brad Pitt, Colin Farrell, whoever, Jessica Chastain, and he'll just shoot a blade of grass for two hours or turn the camera on a hawk or some sunspots.
I thought I want to do that, you know, I want to be able to take that time in my film, even a [00:13:00] short film like this one, where I'm doing what I think we all kind of do with with those of us who love the natural world. And I hope that's all of us. You know, you see a swan hanging out with their two chicks and you're like, I'm going to stand here and watch this.
Hopefully you have time to do that. You know, we, we're so starved for time. And then what climate catastrophe and what the natural world is doing is forcing us to look at it. I think it's really scary when that looks like fire. You know, I'm talking to you, I guess, less than 36 hours after Maui just lost a village, right?
And we're in a hurricane season and all of that is scary. I've been in the ocean. I've been in the Atlantic this year, lots. And it's true. It's warmer than I remember. We were getting jellyfish up in the Northeast. I [00:14:00] swim off in Massachusetts along the Cape and we were getting jellyfish in the beginning of July.
We usually don't get them until the end of August. Even the man- o- wars, the Portuguese man- o- wars, so nature is talking to us.
Pam Uzzell: Well, you brought up some really interesting things. First of all, I do love the shot of the swans, the little swan family that is there in your film. But you mentioned the people that are there, and it feels like it's almost like a stand in for you.
There's a father, and I would assume his daughter.
dream hampton: Yeah, totally. Bryce Detroit, a fixture on the Detroit art scene, and his wonderful daughter Nia, and her little sister, and her good friend, Treasure. So yeah, there are a few humans in it.
Pam Uzzell: Oh, that's right. When the, when the girls are playing hopscotch.
dream hampton: By the way, they didn't know what hopscotch was.
I was like, okay, I'm going to draw it for [00:15:00] you. And this is what you do.
Pam Uzzell: That's hilarious. Well, talk about change. Um, well, so you focus a lot on memories around Belle Isle. I've never been to Detroit and I've probably barely ever been to Michigan. I didn't know what Belle Isle was.
dream hampton: Where are you based?
Pam Uzzell: I am in Oakland now, but I grew up in Arkansas. And so I had to, of course, do the Wikipedia search, what is Belle Isle? And can you describe, you don't have to say necessarily what Belle Isle is, but it is an isle in the middle of, in the river, right?
dream hampton: Yeah, no, I'd love
to say what Belle Isle is as well.
Pam Uzzell: Oh, please do. And also say why it's meaningful to you.
dream hampton: So the what of Belle
Isle and the where of Belle Isle is that... Olmsted, Frederick Olmsted, the great landscape architect who gave us Central Park in New York, and he [00:16:00] says that he perfected the quote unquote mistakes of Central Park with Brooklyn's Prospect Park, but his real kind of like
crowning achievement is in Detroit, and it's called Belle Isle, Belle Ile. Of course, Detroit is quote unquote founded in colonial terms by the French, so Détroit. Like New Orleans. The French aren't the Dutch, but It is built on a series of canals, and I say that because the Dutch have this saying, God invented the world and the Dutch invented Amsterdam.
God created the world and the Dutch created Amsterdam, you know, because of their will to hold back the water, right? But the French, with both New Orleans and Detroit, built them on a series of canals that the Indigenous people absolutely warned them about, like, yo, dude. I know we're at war with you and you're being super genocidal, but, [00:17:00] um, you're also terraforming places where you shouldn't, you know?
This isn't our relationship with this land and there's a reason. There's this thing called the water. This design that you have may not fail you now, but it may, it will in generations. The Lakota thing about, think about seven generations. So I've kind of digressed from what Belle Isle is, but Detroit founded by the French, furriers actually, um, and Antoine Cadillac.
So it's in the Detroit river. Another random fact where like Houdini basically killed himself trying to get out of a locked box, um, in the Detroit river off the Belle Isle bridge, actually. It sits between Detroit and Canada, and Detroit's codename in the Underground Railroad used to be codenamed Midnight, which meant that it was the last stop in the U. S. before people who were escaping slavery crossed over into Windsor and found a kind of more real freedom [00:18:00] than even the North. But what Belle Isle means to me is it was a public space. You know, you're, I'm talking to you from Oakland, so. You know, I guess Belle Isle is a lot grander than Lake Merritt, but it's this place that, like Lake Merritt, has become a site of contention with people who are new to the community.
And that happened with Detroit. The state of Michigan recently took over Belle Isle. Promising to make all of these improvements, none of which have happened, even the bathrooms remain closed. But what has happened is you now pay a fee to get on Bella Isle. That was not my experience as a child. It was a place that was truly a public space as it was, as Olmstead intended, as, as is always should be intent, the intention for parks, you know, a public green space out in the middle of this beautiful river.
You kind of do laps around it because you basically go in this [00:19:00] large circle and it was where you saw the community. It was where when my father would pick me up on the weekends after my mom and dad's divorce, it was a free way for him. You know, he didn't always have to take me to Chuck E. Cheese and spend a ton of money and give me arcade.
He could just take me out to the park and open the door and we'd fly a kite or we would run into people that he kind of knew who were having barbecues. I think about Lake Merritt and that whole barbecue- gate.
Pam Uzzell: Barbecue- Becky.
dream hampton: Yes. And I remember thinking about how that was like, literally there were these, there still are these big giant public barbecue pits, you know?
So if you just get there first and make a claim, you can also reserve them. You can have your family reunion there. You can just have a cookout. And, you know, there are all kinds of reasons. Some of them are by design and about, uh, failure on the city's part or just kind of [00:20:00] state, state sanctioned new incursions.
And some of them are about the different ways, the more individualistic ways we're living our, our lives where we're not in public spaces so much. We imagine, and maybe in fact it has become, but we imagine that social media is the public space and square. So I'm remembering a time before that. Um, when I was discovering myself as a person and as a little girl and as a human, and there was a slide that I loved called the giant slide.
And it's exactly that. I don't have the metrics on it, but it's huge. I can't believe we were definitely going up like two or 200 steps to slide down this thing. Um, yeah, in a burlap sack. And so all of these kind of joyful memories of being a kid. There's a Kerry James Marshall painting of like a dad swinging with probably his daughter like around in circles and her pigtails are [00:21:00] flying and, and it very much reminds me of me and my father from that era.
So,
yeah.
Pam Uzzell: Right. And, you know, I said earlier, you have the people who are the stand ins for your dad and for you driving around in the car. But you also, the other imagery you have is just water, water, water. And if we're not seeing water, we're hearing water. And you talk about, was it your grandmother who said the nature of water is to always be moving?
dream hampton: Yeah.
Pam Uzzell: And then you meditate on what,
what is a flood? So what is it that you say that a flood is?
dream hampton: A flood is water having nowhere to go. And even that, you know, my film is not about the politics. Again, I'd already been didactic in a few projects. So this is really about just smaller thoughts and moments.
But if I'm going to extrapolate, I think about how we ended up here. Right. And by the way, [00:22:00] as I was doing this project and we were in my old neighborhood and there was flooding happening, I realized that I needed to do a more straightforward project. So we did a 15 minute video with the Rockefeller Foundation called Swollen: Dispatches from the Flooded Midwest.
And we had filmmakers in Cleveland and in Milwaukee. And in Detroit, send in their stories and one of the activists in Milwaukee talks about that this isn't a problem of rain coming from the sky. This is about what we've done to our grounds. It's about concrete. It's about the lack of green space. Like in Detroit, I can distinctly remember being a child.
It was first grade. I came home from school and my entire block had been scalped. It was like these stumps where there were once trees that were 75, 100 years old. Trees that we used to hug and climb and that like marked, I could tell you where I lived because I was in front of the big [00:23:00] tree, you know? And it was just gone.
I don't know if my parents got the notice, but we came home from school one day and all of our trees were gone and that was about surveillance, you know? It happened in Los Angeles before it happened in Detroit. Los Angeles has a bigger budget for their police departments, and they would do these helicopter surveillances that the LAPD were famous for.
They would even, um, without residents permission, go on their rooftops and paint numbers on their rooftops so that they could identify what was happening at house, you know, 111 on the whatever block on the Crenshaw block of whatever. So that kind of law and order surveillance that was happening in the early 80s that Ronald Reagan ushers in that, you know, Nixon had promised, but that Reagan kind of doubled downs on is like with cop city in Atlanta right now, often about
robbing us of our, our natural spaces, our, the green space, you know. For years they took out the tree, but the [00:24:00] stump was just there. So it was like this wounded kind of artifact that, you know, pushed up the sidewalk because trees don't like sidewalks, right? But now it was gone. And there was just the slanted sidewalk that we've used to, as a ramp for our bikes to do wheelies on and, you know, and, um, you know, That's how we get here.
We get here again from bad decisions. America's the king of like unintended consequences. Like, oh, we had no idea if we went into Iraq and that it would all be so bad. Like, we had no idea that. So we're, we're good for like doing the opposite of the Lakota Nation who talks about every decision you make,
think about how it'll affect the next seven generations. We're the opposite of that. We're like, I'm not going to be around if Phoenix, you know, turns into a ball of fire, like its name, like it won't affect me. So yeah, the flooding is bad [00:25:00] infrastructure. It's about a city that's been divested from for years, but it's also another part of that story is
this surveillance that police wanted to do on Black and Brown neighborhoods in the 80s and what that meant, which was cutting down trees.
Pam Uzzell: I'd never heard that before. Although I do remember the helicopter. I was working in LA in the 80s, and I do remember the helicopters nonstop. Actually, they're here.
dream hampton: Yeah.
Pam Uzzell: Being in Oakland, it's really hard to be a podcaster because you often have the helicopters going on for an entire day.
dream hampton: But you know, when the LA River was flooding whole parts of LA this spring, I was absolutely thinking about that history of like, you know, would this water have had somewhere to go had they not, you know, deforested the city, for lack of a better word.
Pam Uzzell: Right,
right. And paved it [00:26:00] over.
dream hampton: Mm hmm.
Pam Uzzell: Yeah. Well. There's an irony though when you talk about freshwater because you do mention the possibility that Michigan, is this really being floated around that Michigan could become a place for climate refugees because there is so much freshwater there?
dream hampton: Yeah,
the new fantasy among people who are looking at climate.
And who say things like, water is going to be the new oil. You know, I've been hearing that since the 90s, right? The 21st century, the wars will be about water, not oil. And, um, okay, fine, true. And yeah, Michigan is, the Great Lakes are, if not the biggest body of freshwater, one of them, the second biggest. And, you know, I think of states
that are being so cruel in this moment to people who have to move their bodies and their families and the few belongings that they can manage to move with them. Migrants is what we call them. Illegals is what [00:27:00] some people call them. But, you know, I think it was Al Gore that helped me to see in some interview that he did, he was talking about Hurricane Maria and the effect that it had had on Guatemala, Honduras and Ecuador in particular.
Those three countries are responsible for so much of who's arriving at the border, who's desperately arriving at the southern border in this moment. And for the past few years since Maria and it was Al Gore who hacked that for my brain. He was like, yeah, these are farmers. These are people whose, whose land has been flooded by Maria and can't recover because of poor infrastructure.
So you, you, you look at a place like Texas, which has its own, infrastructure problems again by design and divestment and a state like Florida, which is going to be top three of the places that will be uninhabitable, you know, in my lifetime, in my daughter's lifetime. And, and you look at how cruel they're being to their future selves
in this moment. [00:28:00] They've been told and they believe and continue to tell themselves that they're talking about invaders rather than climate refugees. And I, I don't think that climate is the only thing that only valid reason to move. The Irish came here. That wasn't a climate issue to beat. The famine that was produced by the UK, by Britain, but, um, economic reasons are legitimate reasons.
America is full of descendants of economic refugees. So that's a valid reason to move your body and your family. But we, we just have this narrative that's ongoing, um, an anti immigrant narrative that's about fear. Um, in a country that, you know, literally could absorb another hundred million people without batting an eye.
Pam Uzzell: Yeah. What you're doing in this film because it's about losing these spaces and one thing you do is that you, give us these moments of what made you and [00:29:00] these moments that are really painful for you right now, like when you're driving down the street where you, is it where you grew up?
The east side is that, and that, um, There's like all the houses are gone. Maybe they're in the imagery. There's like one standing, among grass and trees and things that have come to reclaim that space. What do you think is going to be the role of storytelling as we're coming to terms with some of these ways that not just your history, but many people's histories are being erased and it's happened before to other people.
That's what we should acknowledge. It's happened before. But this sort of whole scale changing of the world as we know it. What do you think the role of storytelling is going to be in your opinion?
dream hampton: Well, there are going to be
keepers of stories. And they'll be important. The griot always is, you know, and hopefully they'll remember some of us, you know. I think of the history of [00:30:00] this country and how we're fighting for near histories, let alone, we don't really have ancient history here as America, as a state.
But even the Indigenous histories, we have little flashpoints. I spent a lot of time, like I said, on the coast of Massachusetts and the Wampanoag tribe is the tribe that the myth of the first encounter is about. So you get these like flashes of a pre colonial history, but that that's an example of lost
histories, you know, for the most part, I'm not saying that those First Nations aren't trying to keep those stories, but these are survivors of genocide, you know, and I know how important narrative I look at all the kind of work that was done around the Holocaust and how important that work was as now we face
all this erasure, these attempts at erasure, you know, so that if you thought when Stephen Spielberg was helping to do the [00:31:00] Shoah project, or I think it's called the Shoah project, but when those recorded histories of the last survivors from World War II were having their narratives recorded, if you thought that that was unnecessary because at that point we had so many movies about the Holocaust.
Now we know, no, there's going to be in 10, 15 years, there's just going to come this generation and it's going to get traction where people, I'm not saying it's widespread, but it's widespread enough to be alarming where people are denying the Holocaust. That used to be a real fringe kind of movement. And now throughout Europe and even in the
U. S. it's become far more common than it should be. Right? And so then you understand the importance of having that evidence. I saw people do that around Rwanda. My project isn't that, again, this isn't talking heads, giving their stories and, and who knows by the way, I just. I just came across footage that I've had for the past 30 years, and I'm doing something with it, an archival documentary, [00:32:00] and a lot of it is in different states of degradation, and so we think that we're uploading our archives to these safe places when we put them in the cloud, but then we have to step back and understand that we're talking about vertically integrated, you know, sites that are owned by corporations that are helmed by two or three billionaires, you know, who are on the spectrum of like nutsness, you know, both, all three of them or whatever.
We have to wonder how safe are these archives that I've just been uploading to the cloud. As a filmmaker, I use things like Frame. io, but it still comes down to like these corporately owned places that we thought we were like storing our things in safe ways, safer than like the physical. And that's why oral stories and histories are so important.
Because they can persist even beyond some of these artifacts.
Pam Uzzell: Yeah,
I do love that idea of oral histories, but it's so at odds [00:33:00] with where we're racing towards with tech right now.
dream hampton: Yeah, yeah.
Pam Uzzell: What I imagine when you say that, though, is you and, um, who's the person who interviewed you?
dream hampton: Oh, Sterling Toles
yeah.
Pam Uzzell: Yeah, sitting there. reminiscing and having this conversation in a way for now at least this is what we can do you can create this film that then goes out and touches so many other people. You say that in the film that like most people you have an existential dread of climate change but also there's a sort of airing or for me at least there's a sort of airing of grief in this in a way that is not despair.
Do you know what I mean?
dream hampton: Yeah, no, it's true. I try not to despair. It gets harder every day. And I'm laughing because it's a nervous giggle. I'm terrified by the images I see coming out of Maui. Probably because of my relationship to it. I have a relationship to Maui. [00:34:00] So I'm not saying that it's more terrifying than the images that came out of Pakistan last year, but I guess as a Western person, I just haven't traveled to Pakistan, and I have been to Maui.
Pam Uzzell: I think the value of your film, this type of art, is that it really
brings it into the here and now, these are the consequences, and it's still, it's a beautiful piece of art, but there's so much more than the beauty of it.
And I really appreciated that. Can you tell people where they can find out more about you and your work and see this film?
dream hampton: Sure. It's pretty easy.
dreamhampton.com. If the film isn't up now, it will be right now. It's on the New York Times dot com and ' PBS 's POV.
They co released it a month ago and it'll be on dreamhampton. com moving forward.
Pam Uzzell: That's
awesome. Thank you so much for coming and talking about it today.
dream hampton: Thank you.[00:35:00]
Pam Uzzell: You're listening to Art Heals All Wounds.
Thank you so much to dream hampton for being on the show to talk about her film Freshwater. I hope that everyone who listens who hasn't seen this film yet will watch it. It's really easy to do. It's only about nine minutes long and it's online. I'll put links up in the show notes on where you can find this film.
I'm also including links in the show notes of a list of places to donate to victims of the wildfires in Maui. Recovery from the fires there is ongoing and it will take a lot to help the [00:36:00] people displaced by them. Remember, leave me a voicemail of your stories of places that shaped you so that I can include them in a future episode.
You can find that link on my website, arthealsallwoundspodcast. com. While you're at my website, if you'd like to leave me a small donation, you can click on the
'buy me a coffee" link and leave a little something there. Every bit helps me to continue making this podcast. With that in mind, a big shout out to Ajuan Mance for leaving me a donation. Thank you, Ajuan! The music you've heard in this podcast is by Barbara Higby, Ketsa,
and Lobo Loco. This podcast was edited by Iva Hristova. As always, this show was recorded using Squadcast.fm. Art Heals All Wounds comes to you from Oakland, California, on unceded territory of the Chochenyo Ohlone people.[00:37:00]